RE: Paris 2012: F-Type, full details

[kambites]

Even if every one of them is bought for or by a woman, I suspect a higher proportion of US cars would be manual.

[Pesty]

MSTRBKR said:

Indeed. They are literally the best car manufacturer at this point in time. They make the best, most reliable (nearly) and turn the biggest profits.

Biggest profit certainly.

[ratty6464]

I was surprised to find the "S" is 1650kg standard. Nowhere near the weight I was expecting after reading the info about being lightweight!
Explains why 380bhp only gets to 62mph in 4.9seconds I suppose.

Apart from that, looks pretty exciting. Looking forward to the coupé more though.

[DonkeyApple]

ratty6464 said:

I was surprised to find the "S" is 1650kg standard. Nowhere near the weight I was expecting after reading the info about being lightweight!
Explains why 380bhp only gets to 62mph in 4.9seconds I suppose.

Apart from that, looks pretty exciting. Looking forward to the coupé more though.

But would stripping out all the creature comforts that are synonymous with Jaguar make for a significantly swifter than the already swift 4.9?

I doubt it.

[whoami]

DonkeyApple said:

ratty6464 said:

I was surprised to find the "S" is 1650kg standard. Nowhere near the weight I was expecting after reading the info about being lightweight!
Explains why 380bhp only gets to 62mph in 4.9seconds I suppose.

Apart from that, looks pretty exciting. Looking forward to the coupé more though.

But would stripping out all the creature comforts that are synonymous with Jaguar make for a significantly swifter than the already swift 4.9?

I doubt it.

No, and no-one would buy it.

[DonkeyApple]

whoami said:

No, and no-one would buy it.

In five years time they'll sell a few hundred as a limited edition, would be my bet.

But it isn't what the Jaguar brand is about in essence and, as you say, no one would buy it in any commercial numbers.

I don't get why people think Jags should be stripped out street cars or sold for a loss at £38k or that 4.9 to 62 is slow!!!

[Kong]

DonkeyApple said:

I don't get why people think Jags should be stripped out street cars or sold for a loss at £38k or that 4.9 to 62 is slow!!!

Because this is pistonheads where people think a Jag should be like a Lotus!

[RichB]

Kong said:

DonkeyApple said:

I don't get why people think Jags should be stripped out street cars or sold for a loss at £38k or that 4.9 to 62 is slow!!!

Because this is pistonheads where people think a Jag should be like a Lotus!

Indeed and supposedly car people so they should know that even as far back as the XK120 they were pretty big cars.

[kambites]

Daft isn't it. Jaguar are a luxury car maker - they are not going to make a Caterham competitor.

[whoami]

DonkeyApple said:

whoami said:

No, and no-one would buy it.

In five years time they'll sell a few hundred as a limited edition, would be my bet.

But it isn't what the Jaguar brand is about in essence and, as you say, no one would buy it in any commercial numbers.

I don't get why people think Jags should be stripped out street cars or sold for a loss at £38k or that 4.9 to 62 is slow!!!

No idea where some posters get their ideas from.

Perhaps they could explain?

[jimmy156]

^ no, but if all the hype before the announcement was to be believed the were going to make a boxster competitor.

[RichB]

Yes, the hype always from jornalists who are full of crap like most of Pistonheads

[whoami]

jimmy156 said:

^ no, but if all the hype before the announcement was to be believed the were going to make a boxster competitor.

Media hype or Jaguar hype?

[Carl_Docklands]

DJRC said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Twincam16 said:

DJRC said:

The XK is moving upwards, into much more genuine SL and DB9 volante territory. Jaguar have said thing all along.

People are complaining about the price of the F-type, but bear this in mind - it undercuts the 911 while going just as fast. The E-type did that.

Need to keep in mind that whilst the Jag has the upper hand in straight line speed, we don't know how she corners.

The Carrera S is quicker on the majority of circuits than the SLS AMG coupe even though the 911 is 90BHP/ton down against the Merc.

Unless Jag have pulled off some sort of engineering miracle, the F-type will get spanked unless, its a straight drag race.

? 95% of the time on 99% of the roads ppl will only be using 50% of the car's performance. How exactly is it going to get spanked?

Its a road car. Race tracks and the Ring dont count.

There is a strong connection between well designed cars and lap times, especially on the smaller circuits like hokenheim.

If the bottom jag beats a boxster s around that circuit we know she will also do well on say, the welsh mountain run (Newport via Llandudno).

[swisstoni]

DJRC said:

nbirch said:

I'll be going against the grain by saying I find this an utterly uninspiring effort from Jag. Part Maserati, part Nissan, part Spyker... If this is a natural successor of the E-type its a FAIL.... it's not substantially different from anything else out in the market techinically, atheistically its uninspiring and its certainly not inexpensive for what it is. If it was 40K new, then it would cause a few raised eyebrows in Germany, Japan, and Italy, but as it stands big opportunity missed.

You have obviously been discussing it with the above ppl this week then? Oh wait, sorry, this is the internet, of course you havent.

Whereas I was in Firenze and Pisa yesterday and in southern Germany today. Being British and amongst engineers the conversation on both days turned to the release of the "new E-Type". The Italians had a young Micra driving woman, late 20s and the Germans a middle aged lady with a new BMW 3 series. The F-Type was met with complete approval by all members of both groups I was with, inc 2 very different ladies.

It would seem that you are in fact incorrect given the primary evidence available.

I agree with nbirch. I'm not sure how listing where you have been or who you have spoken to enables you to invalidate someone else's opinion.

To me, a 'new E Type' should be a car that would make you say to yourself "I've got to get myself one of those, some way, some how" just as I imagine a lot of people said when they first saw the E Type.

This is a a nice car but its no successor to the E Type.

[RichB]

swisstoni said:

This is a a nice car but its no successor to the E Type.

And with that you've hit the nail on the head.

p.s. Only those of us in a our mid-50s and over will remember the initial impact the E-Type made!

[DonkeyApple]

RichB said:

swisstoni said:

This is a a nice car but its no successor to the E Type.

And with that you've hit the nail on the head.

p.s. Only those of us in a our mid-50s and over will remember the initial impact the E-Type made!

What was quite interesting in that Norbert Singer interview on the other thread was when he talked about how today, in the modern world, all changes are tiny and incremental and that there are no big changes left. And that when he was starting out just one change could deliver a step change re-define everything.

Now, he was talking about aero but in reality it is an observation that can be carried into many areas of car manufacture.

Back in the 60s statistically you could deliver something that just hadn't been done before, or completely broke the mould, or had never been seen before. I would say that this is pretty much where we are with car design but even worse that this evolutionary state is in further compounded by legislation that totally restricts all directions of visual evolution. When legislation controls what dimensions parts need to fit within and when aero has made its big siesmic changes and all changes now are incremental, micro, not macro then I think Jag have done a very good job.

From a marketing perspective there is also another advantage. By allowing this F Type to be publicly 'sold' as the E Type replacement it puts to bed all the decades of ramblings by now senile writers in the motoring press about when Jaguar will relaunch the E Type. In a way it is a cathartic release that unshackles Jaguar from its past.

I think that those of us between say, 40 & 70 have been living through the most monumental period of evolution of the combustion engined car but if we open our eyes we can easily see that the big changes have steadily become smaller, fewer and further apart.

On top of all of this, I also think duffers are 'enhancing' their memories of the launch of the E Type as we all do with favourable memories.

[Apache]

Good post DA, I concur, this is a very nice design but you only need to look at Koenigsegg and Pagani to see that there is still some room for pushing the boundries

[DonkeyApple]

Apache said:

Good post DA, I concur, this is a very nice design but you only need to look at Koenigsegg and Pagani to see that there is still some room for pushing the boundries

And also things like the Veyron etc but they all have something in common, that they are immensely expensive. Either due to cost of production or due to low volume from not being all that practical.

Jag need to fit to a niche that sees much higher volume sales while keeping investment low and production simple etc.

With the E Type they, I believe, we're the first to use wind testing and first with production independent rear suspension? Both form part of that group of huge step changes of which few, if any, are left.

I think expecting a modern manufacturer to produce a car with a raft of big step changes in the industry would be short sighted.

[DonkeyApple]

Apache said:

Good post DA, I concur, this is a very nice design but you only need to look at Koenigsegg and Pagani to see that there is still some room for pushing the boundries

And also things like the Veyron etc but they all have something in common, that they are immensely expensive. Either due to cost of production or due to low volume from not being all that practical.

Jag need to fit to a niche that sees much higher volume sales while keeping investment low and production simple etc.

With the E Type they, I believe, we're the first to use wind testing and first with production independent rear suspension? Both form part of that group of huge step changes of which few, if any, are left.

I think expecting a modern manufacturer to produce a car with a raft of big step changes in the industry would be short sighted.