RE: Time for Tea? Deutsche Tourenwagen Masterclass

[Baryonyx]

Blackpuddin said:

I'm sure I heard him mention John Steinbeck at one point.

You are correct.

Also, V8's revving to 13,000rpm? There must be a video of this!

[J4SON88]

I want a Texaco RS500! I think they were the Eggenberger (don't kill me if i haven't spelt that correctly) run cars. Also nice to see the Merkur XR4Ti (may be XR8 come to think of it) as well, don't see that many clips of them as they were a stop gap.

Awesome racing none the less, not a car i don't want either, especially the RS500 and Volvo 240 'Turbobricks'.

[CraigyMc]

Baryonyx said:

Blackpuddin said:

I'm sure I heard him mention John Steinbeck at one point.

You are correct.

Also, V8's revving to 13,000rpm? There must be a video of this!

I was talking about engines in general, not engines in DTM cars - The Ford Zetec-R ended up chucking out 700bhp at about 13,800rpm in '94 before they changed to 3 litre engines in F1.

Having said all that, if you want high revs from a V8 DTM-type car, I think this is what you want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6lgWiqjeDw

[itsrodders]

sinbaddio said:

Great to see the Alfa 155's in the mix too!

And the 75s, old chap!

[Mastodon2]

IainW said:

Didn't fit the rules at all, but the ITR allowed it in because the fans loved it. Gerd Ruch and his brother Jorg had two, then Jurgen Feucht had the black 'Buffalo Boots' car.

Does anyone have any more info on the above, specifically about how the cars did not fit the rules? I've read that when the Alfas were dominant (93 or 94?) they could outbrake the Mustang but the Mustang would just fly past them on the straights - did it have a significant power advantage? Some special technology the others did not have access to?

It's one of the coolest looking DTM cars I've ever seen, a bloody Mustang mixing it up with the Germans, how cool is that?

[bmthnick1981]

Try this one as well for 90s DTM;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmpykHySBNI

[CedricN]

Or this vid that I upploaded:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-edLvr4Mv8

The racing going on at the nurburgring is staggering!!

Wasnt there some cheating going on with the audis and the flat plane crank?

[sinbaddio]

itsrodders said:

sinbaddio said:

Great to see the Alfa 155's in the mix too!

And the 75s, old chap!

Ah yes, and those too!

[BigI]

Also gave rise to the two classic 90's car mods; the DTM single wiper conversion (somehow I dont think one wiper was ever as good as two) and the DTM style exhaust.

Those Mercs looked amazing.

[arkenphel]

Awesome vids!

BTW, what's the Norisring?

Counds like a racetrack for Chuck Norris...

[F1GTRUeno]

arkenphel said:

BTW, what's the Norisring?

Counds like a racetrack for Chuck Norris...

Street circuit in the grounds of the old Nazi Rally fields.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norisring

[s m]

J4SON88 said:

Also nice to see the Merkur XR4Ti (may be XR8 come to think of it) as well, don't see that many clips of them as they were a stop gap.

Was the XR8 ever homologated in a 3-door shell? The first XR4ti I saw looks like one of the Eggenberger cars

[GranCab]

The best bit for me was the shot of the Merc with the traffic cone jammed in the radiator grille !

Edited by GranCab on Friday 28th September 09:58

[nutta29]

seeing that video remind me of btcc in the early 90's.

[Guvernator]

WojaWabbit said:

I argue that the 'X number of production cars' Homologation rule was one of the best things to happen in the motoring world.... it gave us M3s, 190E Evos, RS500s, Integrales, Quattros, Impreza STIs and countless other derivatives of Evolution nomenclature to mention just a few, never mind the craziness of things like water injection kits in the boot of Escort Cosworths!

The current lack of Omologato saddens me

Absolutely agree complete, both the Touring Car and Rally championships were infinitely more exciting due to the fact that you could watch a race at the weekend and then go and buy something very similar on Monday, it really did help to produce the most exciting road cars to date. This is something they NEED to do to bring back the excitement to a lot of motorsport these days.

[Maldini35]

Guvernator said:

Absolutely agree complete, both the Touring Car and Rally championships were infinitely more exciting due to the fact that you could watch a race at the weekend and then go and buy something very similar on Monday, it really did help to produce the most exciting road cars to date. This is something they NEED to do to bring back the excitement to a lot of motorsport these days.

Could not agree more.

[ScoobieWRX]

Was that DTM or tarmac rallying...lol... How much sideways action!! Fantastisch!!

[zebedee]

Maldini35 said:

Guvernator said:

Absolutely agree complete, both the Touring Car and Rally championships were infinitely more exciting due to the fact that you could watch a race at the weekend and then go and buy something very similar on Monday, it really did help to produce the most exciting road cars to date. This is something they NEED to do to bring back the excitement to a lot of motorsport these days.

Could not agree more.

But we also need to understand why it was so exciting and a large part of that was that the cars were really driven at their limits, the fact that we could see they were on the edge, that the drivers were working so hard, the "will he get it stopped in time or not?" that brings you to the end of your seat. Just been watching my late 80's early 90s BTCC videos and they made me think the same, that is what is lacking now, most formulas just appear so linear and direct to watch that it is a bit dull, we need oversteer and understeer and wheel wrestling, but have developments in aero, suspension and transmission just ironed all of that out now?

[RacerMPower]

“thrilling viewing. It serves to render our domestic BTCC rather tame, both in terms of viewer spectacle and driver challenge.”

Are you sure about? Even with the revised cars, DTM is still very boring for actual racing. Norisring was the exception, due to the wet conditions. The cars still have too much downforce, they look nailed to the track and there isn’t enough tyre degredation, either.

Touring cars should be a contact sport, with a bit of rubbing. DTM cars are way too fragile; the aero winglets need to be ditched. DTM cars do sound terrific, the sound and use of V8 motors are the only areas where DTM is better than BTCC.

Ironically, DTM is the series which is tame. It’s mostly follow the leader with little overtaking.

[Guvernator]

RacerMPower said:

“thrilling viewing. It serves to render our domestic BTCC rather tame, both in terms of viewer spectacle and driver challenge.”

Are you sure about? Even with the revised cars, DTM is still very boring for actual racing. Norisring was the exception, due to the wet conditions. The cars still have too much downforce, they look nailed to the track and there isn’t enough tyre degredation, either.

Touring cars should be a contact sport, with a bit of rubbing. DTM cars are way too fragile; the aero winglets need to be ditched. DTM cars do sound terrific, the sound and use of V8 motors are the only areas where DTM is better than BTCC.

Ironically, DTM is the series which is tame. It’s mostly follow the leader with little overtaking.

I'd somewhat agree, modern DTM is boring compared to the good old days and it is to do with the fact that the cars are just too good. However bring back homogalation and it would mean that the cars would need to be tamer, massive wings\aero out, silhoutte racers out, make them closer to a road cars. Yes the cars would be slower overall but massively more entertaining to watch and it would mean that we might get some proper race bred specials back on the road again. Porsche are the only manufacturer who seem to do this at the moment with their GT3\RS range and look how good those cars are!