RE: Time for Tea? Deutsche Tourenwagen Masterclass
Discussion
Guvernator said:
I'd somewhat agree, modern [racing in most formats] is boring compared to the good old days and it is to do with the fact that the cars are just too good. However bring back homogalation and it would mean that the cars would need to be tamer, massive wings\aero out, silhoutte racers out, make them closer to a road cars. Yes the cars would be slower overall but massively more entertaining to watch and it would mean that we might get some proper race bred specials back on the road again. Porsche are the only manufacturer who seem to do this at the moment with their GT3\RS range and look how good those cars are!
This [with my edit in square brackets]. You also get to see the driver bringing a lot more to the party and being able to see a particular drivers skills and techniques at work.
Me and some mates created a formula for good racing on GT5 online. It was a car with a minimum of 4700mm length (I think), 4 doors, so big saloons upwards, and max performance points of 450, so you made them lighter but they didn't have massive power (around 280bhp typically I think, more if the car was heavier) and they were always fun to race, you had to push on without much aero so they were fidgety, getting an aero tow was essential prior to making a pass, ducking out and getting all squirrely on the brakes. More fun in many ways than racing proper gt cars. Now how can it be brought to bear in real terms, because I watched the superstars series and that was fun, but not gripping - perhaps you need a championship that means something and top drivers trying to prove who is best too?
Guvernator said:
I'd somewhat agree, modern DTM is boring compared to the good old days and it is to do with the fact that the cars are just too good. However bring back homogalation and it would mean that the cars would need to be tamer, massive wings\aero out, silhoutte racers out, make them closer to a road cars. Yes the cars would be slower overall but massively more entertaining to watch and it would mean that we might get some proper race bred specials back on the road again. Porsche are the only manufacturer who seem to do this at the moment with their GT3\RS range and look how good those cars are!
There good bits about DTM. The noise, drivers and car manufacturers involved. I think the cars have become the opposite of what touring cars should be. Current DTM cars aren’t much sturdier than open wheel cars when contact is made, and rubbing bumpers a little is what makes things like BTCC and V8 Supercars exciting. DTM cars have extremely short braking distances; too, meaning passing is limited. Touring cars shouldn’t have big downforce levels, sticky-out aero bits like single seaters and carbon brakes. The emphasis should be on the racing, not trying to ape open wheel cars.
BTCC is often sneered that, but apart from the four cylinder engines, I cannot see why. The racing is far more entertaining.
DTM should look at the Racecar Euro Series, sanctioned by NASCAR. The cars are not particularly sophisticated and have low cornering speeds, but they produce superb racing. The braking distances are much longer, too, meaning out-braking someone isn’t a near impossibility like it is in DTM.
Current DTM is extremely boring and overrated.
melvster said:
Fantastic era of motorsport, so exciting to watch, hard to pick a favourite as all the cars looked stunning; also, i think this was the best era of motorsport for such iconic race liveries.
Love the Diebels Alt carsAnd the final shot of five 190 Mercs taking precisely the same line over the kerb - and then two Alfas being very careful to avoid the kerb.
Wonder what Bernd Schneider is up to these days?
Edited by Blackpuddin on Friday 28th September 19:57
"...but the truth is that the DTM is just as fantastic today."
No it isn't. Obviously I appreciate that the author (using the term loosely) of the piece probably wasn't born during the halcyon days of early '90s DTM, but it's always a good idea to do a little research before pressing 'send'. Old DTM was amazing - the dogfights were mental, the grids huge and the cars always had more power than grip thanks to their road-based chassis. When they came to Donington in '91 for the first ITR race the spectators couldn't believe what they were seeing. It was proper, hardcore racing involving all four German manufacturers (and the amusing Mustangs at the back). They would have made mincemeat out of the likes of Jason Plato.
Those of us who've been in motorsport for years do tend to look through rose-tinted specs to an extent (and we all know Group B was insane really...), but DTM was utterly brilliant in those days and no form of modern tin top racing comes close - even V8 Supercars, which is superb.
No it isn't. Obviously I appreciate that the author (using the term loosely) of the piece probably wasn't born during the halcyon days of early '90s DTM, but it's always a good idea to do a little research before pressing 'send'. Old DTM was amazing - the dogfights were mental, the grids huge and the cars always had more power than grip thanks to their road-based chassis. When they came to Donington in '91 for the first ITR race the spectators couldn't believe what they were seeing. It was proper, hardcore racing involving all four German manufacturers (and the amusing Mustangs at the back). They would have made mincemeat out of the likes of Jason Plato.
Those of us who've been in motorsport for years do tend to look through rose-tinted specs to an extent (and we all know Group B was insane really...), but DTM was utterly brilliant in those days and no form of modern tin top racing comes close - even V8 Supercars, which is superb.
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