RE: SOTW: Range Rover LSE

RE: SOTW: Range Rover LSE

Author
Discussion

AJordan

169 posts

142 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Always been a Land Rover fan boy, even since I was knee high, and theres something about the Range Rover classic that makes me want one, especially after a 1 am ride round rough potholed country roads at 50mph in a Plymouth Blue LSE, the effortless pull and 'whoooshh' of the V8, and the suspension soaking up every single bump

cloud9

jdwoodbury

1,343 posts

205 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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300bhp/ton said:
Most, in fact almost all Classics don't have air suspension. Slipped liners is not normally an issue with the 3.5/3.9 (and 4.2) RV8's. Thats much more of an issue with the newer 4.0 and 4.6 variants found in the p38a and D2.
My dads old classic eventually went due to slipped liners, it had done 300k miles though smile

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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CDP said:
DonkeyApple said:
The fact that in their day they were far from slow is still quite impressive. Back in the 80s 20mpg was perfectly acceptable in a world where Rollers, Jags, Astons etc were doing less.
20 mpg is pretty reasonable for a modern V8 petrol 4X4...
I'd have said 20mpg average from an RV8 Rangie or Disco is slightly optomistic unless you are only cruising on the m-way. I've seen 21.6mpg from a 4.6 HSE p38a, but classics in my experience tend to be more like 15-18mpg average in normal use.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 2nd October 08:22

CDP

7,454 posts

253 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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jdwoodbury said:
My dads old classic eventually went due to slipped liners, it had done 300k miles though smile
At today's prices that's £128,0000 in fuel. Ouch.



splitpin

2,740 posts

197 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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CDP said:
At today's prices that's £128,0000 in fuel. Ouch.
My gosh, that's something of a 'conversation killer'! yikes

Mind you that seems to be based on 15mpg, whereas a light-footed SOTWer will obviously get way more than that and of course, (just like house prices and mortgage rates) petrol is bound to get substantially cheaper over the next few years hehe

Strawman

6,463 posts

206 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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It's not as if you could do 300k miles for free though, say you had an mid-range 5 series BMW from the same era instead and averaged 25mpg, then it's still (the adjusted for inflation) equivalent to nearly £80,000 or whatever.

splitpin

2,740 posts

197 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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Strawman said:
It's not as if you could do 300k miles for free though, say you had an mid-range 5 series BMW from the same era instead and averaged 25mpg, then it's still (the adjusted for inflation) equivalent to nearly £80,000 or whatever.
True, but lest we get too cheery, even at a modest 10K miles per annum, at today's prices the uplift difference between running a 15mpg biggish old-fashioned V8 and a 45mpg modern and efficient engine, still equates to something like £55 per week/£235 per month/£2800 per annum, which is let's be honest pretty appreciable for most.

In our speed-camera infested and 70mph max land of 'can't use it most of the time even if you've got it' and with petrol at something like £6.40ish per gallon (regional variations excepted), you can see why people are focussing on mpg/fuel efficiency*.

Blimey that's sad: I seem to remember doing those sort of calculations years ago and the extra fuel cost involved in having the biggest engine simply wasn't worth thinking about, let alone worrying about. cry

  • PS All part of the plan to drive down the price of the V12 Mercs that I continue to have a bit of a hankering for wink

Trommel

18,973 posts

258 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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splitpin said:
In our speed-camera infested and 70mph max land of 'can't use it most of the time even if you've got it' and with petrol at something like £6.40ish per gallon (regional variations excepted), you can see why people are focussing on mpg/fuel efficiency
Suspect it's as much to do with not appreciating the true cost of depreciation in comparison because they're all paid for on the never-never - a fixed-cost going out automatically every month whether the car is new or not.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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splitpin said:
True, but lest we get too cheery, even at a modest 10K miles per annum, at today's prices the uplift difference between running a 15mpg biggish old-fashioned V8 and a 45mpg modern and efficient engine, still equates to something like £55 per week/£235 per month/£2800 per annum, which is let's be honest pretty appreciable for most.
I'd truly love to know what 4x4 you referring too that can do 45mpg plus all the other things an RRC can do (tow 3500kg, proper off road ability, seat 5 in comfort). Then take said 4x4 and work out, including depreciation how much it'd cost to do 300,000 miles in it.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 2nd October 13:56

Walter Sobchak

5,723 posts

223 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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I WANT another RRC, would I buy this one?, no, as much as I love the old V8 rumble their just simply too thirsty and not greatly reliable.

A nice factory 300 Tdi preferably rust free and with leather+A/C would be what I would spend my money on, sadly they very rarely come up, there is one on Autotrader but there's no way he's going to sell it at £8k, £5k though and I would seriously consider it.

p-car

92 posts

260 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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300bhp/ton said:
p-car said:
I've had the misfortune to drive several of these over the years, absolutely horrible, felt dangerous to me. I realise I'm in a minority in disliking the looks but no one can deny the appalling build quality.

One of the very few vehicles I'd buy just to set fire to smile
Without wishing to be insulting, but if you honestly thought they were dangerous, then it says more about your driving skill than the vehicles.

RR's have been used by the Police lots for high speed pursuit over the years. And I know of one which was also used on rallies in the 70s. Very very capable vehicles in the right hands.
I'm certainly no Alonso/Vettel/Button but I do know how a car is supposed to handle. These things may do a great job offroad at <10mph but I'd prefer that's where they stayed. On road the suspension, brakes and steering, designed primarily to work offroad, provide for an exciting (read wild) ride with the extreme roll you mention, modest at best grip and poor braking, all with the very real possibility of tripping over all on it's own Elk Test style. As I said dangerous! At least this makes them feel faster than they actually are which is probably a good thing.

I think you'll find plod managed to put more than a few on their roofs before they saw sense and switched back to cars, even if they were Volvo's, for motorway pursuit work.yes

On a positive note they make a nice noise (only the V8's), are rugged, where rugged does not equal reliable, and you can usually fix them with a hammer.

I still think they're only good for landfill though.biggrin:

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
quotequote all
Walter Sobchak said:
I WANT another RRC, would I buy this one?, no, as much as I love the old V8 rumble their just simply too thirsty and not greatly reliable.

A nice factory 300 Tdi preferably rust free and with leather+A/C would be what I would spend my money on, sadly they very rarely come up, there is one on Autotrader but there's no way he's going to sell it at £8k, £5k though and I would seriously consider it.
Personally don't really see the appeal of the Tdi lump in these. Don't get me wrong I like Tdi's (on my 3rd currently...) but the reality is, they are crude, noisy and not very powerful. And despite all that they aren't even great on fuel. 24-28mpg and a lot less if you really drive them or mod them (my Disco did 19-22mpg).

And having had (well parents did, but I drove it a lot) a 2.5VM Turbo RR, the Tdi is massively out gunned and seriously lacks performance. Air Con also truly kills a Tdi, they just don't have the balls to handle the additional loss.


That said, if you really want a Tdi RR, just buy any tidy V8 one and convert it to a Tdi. It's a pretty easy job. Even if you paid someone else to do it you should be looking at something like £800-1000 for the conversion plus money back when you sell the RV8.

ITech

111 posts

153 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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p-car said:
I'm certainly no Alonso/Vettel/Button but I do know how a car is supposed to handle. These things may do a great job offroad at <10mph but I'd prefer that's where they stayed. On road the suspension, brakes and steering, designed primarily to work offroad, provide for an exciting (read wild) ride with the extreme roll you mention, modest at best grip and poor braking, all with the very real possibility of tripping over all on it's own Elk Test style. As I said dangerous! At least this makes them feel faster than they actually are which is probably a good thing.

I think you'll find plod managed to put more than a few on their roofs before they saw sense and switched back to cars, even if they were Volvo's, for motorway pursuit work.yes

On a positive note they make a nice noise (only the V8's), are rugged, where rugged does not equal reliable, and you can usually fix them with a hammer.

I still think they're only good for landfill though.biggrin:
Oh Dear.. I laughed out loud when I read this, it is so wrong.

Handling? Well any 4x4 will not handle as well as a sports saloon or propper sports car, as the center of gravity is obviously higher. Common sense really, Doh!

Having said that, the Classic RR handles as well as most (real) 4x4 on road, if not better and if that is not enough, then some polybushes and stiffer suspension will sort that.

Brakes? You have to be kidding, right? The brakes are excellent and well known for being powerful. Have you ever even driven a decent example of one of these cars?

Steering? What are you saying? The car steers like a normal car, what is the problem?

You said "I'm certainly no Alonso/Vettel/Button.." That was the only true thing you have said.

West4x4

672 posts

171 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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If you want a diesel classic look away from the factory models. I had a 2.4VM converted to 3.5 madza SLTi turbo diesel. Thats the kind of thing they should have had from the start much more tourqe than a TDi which in my opinion only really suits the much smaller and lighter 90 i think there underpowered for a 110 to

p-car

92 posts

260 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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ITech said:
Oh Dear.. I laughed out loud when I read this, it is so wrong.

Handling? Well any 4x4 will not handle as well as a sports saloon or propper sports car, as the center of gravity is obviously higher. Common sense really, Doh!

Having said that, the Classic RR handles as well as most (real) 4x4 on road, if not better and if that is not enough, then some polybushes and stiffer suspension will sort that.

Brakes? You have to be kidding, right? The brakes are excellent and well known for being powerful. Have you ever even driven a decent example of one of these cars?

Steering? What are you saying? The car steers like a normal car, what is the problem?

You said "I'm certainly no Alonso/Vettel/Button.." That was the only true thing you have said.
I suspect I laughed even louder than you when I read that reply rofl

Firstly you agree that a 4x4 is never going to handle as well as a proper car, as you say no sh!t Sherlock! Then you recommend modding it with polybushes and stiffer suspension, why not lower it while you're in there wink
In all cases I was advised by their owners that the examples I drove were well maintained, fit and healthy. Yet in all cases the brakes were snatchy at low speed and required a good stomp from higher ones. Steering was overly light and very vague, not at all like a "normal" car. God knows what a bad one is like eek

Maybe I'm being unfair comparing their on road behavior to proper cars scratchchin If you actually need to traverse fields and ditches I'm sure they among the best machines to do it in. I don't and therefore hope I never have the need to climb behind the steering wheel, or is it a tiller, of one again.

Edited by p-car on Tuesday 2nd October 16:11

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
quotequote all
p-car said:
ITech said:
Oh Dear.. I laughed out loud when I read this, it is so wrong.

Handling? Well any 4x4 will not handle as well as a sports saloon or propper sports car, as the center of gravity is obviously higher. Common sense really, Doh!

Having said that, the Classic RR handles as well as most (real) 4x4 on road, if not better and if that is not enough, then some polybushes and stiffer suspension will sort that.

Brakes? You have to be kidding, right? The brakes are excellent and well known for being powerful. Have you ever even driven a decent example of one of these cars?

Steering? What are you saying? The car steers like a normal car, what is the problem?

You said "I'm certainly no Alonso/Vettel/Button.." That was the only true thing you have said.
I suspect I laughed even louder than you when I read that reply rofl

Firstly you agree that a 4x4 is never going to handle as well as a proper car, as you say no sh!t Sherlock! Then you recommend modding it with polybushes and stiffer suspension, why not lower it while you're in there wink
In all cases I was advised by their owners that the examples I drove were well maintained, fit and healthy. Yet in all cases the brakes were snatchy at low speed and required a good stomp from higher ones. Steering was overly light and very vague, not at all like a "normal" car. God knows what a bad one is like eek

Maybe I'm being unfair comparing their on road behavior to proper cars scratchchin If you actually need to traverse fields and ditches I'm sure they among the best machines to do it in. I don't and therefore hope I never have the need to climb behind the steering wheel, or is it a tiller, of one again.

Edited by p-car on Tuesday 2nd October 16:11
Either that or you can't drive.

p-car

92 posts

260 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Either that or you can't drive.

More likely that not only can I drive but I have the sensitivity to discern the differences between the sweet controls of a normal car and the ham fisted ones of an ancient Rangie. idea Unless you boys drive every vehicle in Wellies and Rigger gloves so can't tell an Elise from a Defender from behind the wheel laugh

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
quotequote all
Of course I forgot all modern cars drive and feel like an Elise, how silly of me rolleyes

CDP

7,454 posts

253 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
quotequote all
splitpin said:
CDP said:
At today's prices that's £128,0000 in fuel. Ouch.
My gosh, that's something of a 'conversation killer'! yikes

Mind you that seems to be based on 15mpg, whereas a light-footed SOTWer will obviously get way more than that and of course, (just like house prices and mortgage rates) petrol is bound to get substantially cheaper over the next few years hehe
Or more precisely run it as a second, third, (seventh?) car on a classic policy for fairly low mileages and a bit of towing. With that heritage and height it's good for looking down on plebs too.


ITech

111 posts

153 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
quotequote all
p-car said:
I suspect I laughed even louder than you when I read that reply rofl

Firstly you agree that a 4x4 is never going to handle as well as a proper car, as you say no sh!t Sherlock! Then you recommend modding it with polybushes and stiffer suspension, why not lower it while you're in there wink
In all cases I was advised by their owners that the examples I drove were well maintained, fit and healthy. Yet in all cases the brakes were snatchy at low speed and required a good stomp from higher ones. Steering was overly light and very vague, not at all like a "normal" car. God knows what a bad one is like eek

Maybe I'm being unfair comparing their on road behavior to proper cars scratchchin If you actually need to traverse fields and ditches I'm sure they among the best machines to do it in. I don't and therefore hope I never have the need to climb behind the steering wheel, or is it a tiller, of one again.

Edited by p-car on Tuesday 2nd October 16:11
Fair enough, that's your experience. I don't recognise your description of the steering and brakes, but may be I was lucky with mine, or I had lower expectations. I still think they are great cars, whatever faults they have.