RE: PH blog: interactive experience
Discussion
I am not so sure its even possible to go for a "drive" these days, unless you are lucky enough to live in a remote area.
Getting out of town in anything worthy of going for that drive is a painful experience in my eyes and when you do manage to find a road that could be enjoyed, you will more than likely come across the compulsory driver who sits below the speed limit with a line of traffic mounting behind because people seem to have lost the ability to overtake, the back log gets longer and if your anything past a few cars back overtaking isnt an option unless you want to force yourself into the queue, progress halted!
I spend many an early morning this summer going for that drive in the attempt to miss traffic, it works, but unless your back home before 9, you wont relish the journey home!
Getting out of town in anything worthy of going for that drive is a painful experience in my eyes and when you do manage to find a road that could be enjoyed, you will more than likely come across the compulsory driver who sits below the speed limit with a line of traffic mounting behind because people seem to have lost the ability to overtake, the back log gets longer and if your anything past a few cars back overtaking isnt an option unless you want to force yourself into the queue, progress halted!
I spend many an early morning this summer going for that drive in the attempt to miss traffic, it works, but unless your back home before 9, you wont relish the journey home!
RX7 said:
I am not so sure its even possible to go for a "drive" these days, unless you are lucky enough to live in a remote area.
Agreed. This was on roads leading from the A3 towards Goodwood, and you can always find some clear stretches to play on. Ditto the roads around Shere (Guildford area).
Worth seeking out over a weekend.
Rawwr said:
Garlick, do you think a part of it may also be due to some subconscious sense of your own mortality? I believe you'd fare better if you drove the MINI into an fine, English oak than if you repeated the same trick with the Chimaera.
Maybe. I guess I'll never really know, but likely to play a part I'd say. edo said:
Garlick said:
This was on roads leading from the A3 towards Goodwood, and you can always find some clear stretches to play on. Ditto the roads around Shere (Guildford area).
Worth seeking out over a weekend.
Just look out for a red Chim Worth seeking out over a weekend.
Carnnoisseur said:
Rawwr said:
You know you're in a drivers car when you get to your destination and feel mentally knackered and slightly relieved.
Couldnt have put it better myself - spot on!when you remember the whole journey rather than getting from A to Z without the experience in between.
Glory days of motoring - seems like they are over, unless you make a serious effort to relive the real experience.
TTGuy said:
So are we saying, that from a pistonheads perspective, it is better to have a car with rubbish headlights and no ABS in the rain than a trouble free modern car? And why? Because you have to concentrate more on trying not to crash...and this is a good thing, right?
No, just highlighting the differences they present.
t weather, or at night (or both) I'd rather be in the 640d. On a dry summers day with no traffic, I'd rather be in the chim.Well said (and written). I really must fix up the MX5...
Just for a few minutes yesterday I had the opportunity to give my BMW a bit of beans on an empty A-road; I've had it for over a month and hadn't had it over 5000rpm, just plodding around town. It's no rocketship at all, but in the crowded south-east it's easy to forget how nice it is when the road is open as far as you can see and you can make progress properly.
Just for a few minutes yesterday I had the opportunity to give my BMW a bit of beans on an empty A-road; I've had it for over a month and hadn't had it over 5000rpm, just plodding around town. It's no rocketship at all, but in the crowded south-east it's easy to forget how nice it is when the road is open as far as you can see and you can make progress properly.
I think some people perhaps like the idea of a totally driver focused car, however, the reality of using such a vehicle day to day maybe isn't so appealing.
I was seriously thinking about cars like VX220s and the like before finally settling on the 350Z. I know the two cars could not be more different in their approach, but when I broke up my driving into the type of driving I do and the kind of usage it would see, it was obvious the Z would be a better choice, because this would be a car that would be hooned about occasionally, but more often than not, my GF is in the car with me, and sadly, she does not appreciate high speed cornering, being sat on the ground in a hard seat and other traits that come from having a really raw, hardcore car. I know, MTFU and all that, but I've got to say, I quite like having a car with a significant amount of comfort too.
Don't get me wrong, if the car was only ever used for B-road blasting, and being on track, or even being alone all the time in it, the VX would have been fine. However, I do quite appreciate a car that can do long distances in total comfort too. The Zed is a compromise, but a bloody good one. It does all the things more luxurious cars can do, but it is also capable of being quite the weapon on sweeping A-roads too. And if I have to drive slowly, like when my GF is there, I can enjoy the effortless torque and engine note, the comfort and so on.
I think what I'm saying here is that you don't have to have one, or the other, you can have both in one package, albeit with some slight compromises, but that doesn't mean just because something is heavy, safe or even relatively refined that it can't also be a drivers car when you up the ante!
I was seriously thinking about cars like VX220s and the like before finally settling on the 350Z. I know the two cars could not be more different in their approach, but when I broke up my driving into the type of driving I do and the kind of usage it would see, it was obvious the Z would be a better choice, because this would be a car that would be hooned about occasionally, but more often than not, my GF is in the car with me, and sadly, she does not appreciate high speed cornering, being sat on the ground in a hard seat and other traits that come from having a really raw, hardcore car. I know, MTFU and all that, but I've got to say, I quite like having a car with a significant amount of comfort too.
Don't get me wrong, if the car was only ever used for B-road blasting, and being on track, or even being alone all the time in it, the VX would have been fine. However, I do quite appreciate a car that can do long distances in total comfort too. The Zed is a compromise, but a bloody good one. It does all the things more luxurious cars can do, but it is also capable of being quite the weapon on sweeping A-roads too. And if I have to drive slowly, like when my GF is there, I can enjoy the effortless torque and engine note, the comfort and so on.
I think what I'm saying here is that you don't have to have one, or the other, you can have both in one package, albeit with some slight compromises, but that doesn't mean just because something is heavy, safe or even relatively refined that it can't also be a drivers car when you up the ante!
Garlick said:
RX7 said:
I am not so sure its even possible to go for a "drive" these days, unless you are lucky enough to live in a remote area.
Agreed. This was on roads leading from the A3 towards Goodwood, and you can always find some clear stretches to play on. Ditto the roads around Shere (Guildford area).
Worth seeking out over a weekend.
Do that and you know what a drivers car is
Good article Garlick and I agree with you. Modern driving has become a sterile and driver flattering experience in the main but there are times when I've appreciated the 'keep me out of a hedge' features which also keep my insurance highwayman from getting his bonus.
I like cars for different purposes. I can't say I have a great deal of enthusiasm for sitting in stop start traffic in London in a manual so a more sedate/automated experience isn't such a bad thing in that context.
I like cars for different purposes. I can't say I have a great deal of enthusiasm for sitting in stop start traffic in London in a manual so a more sedate/automated experience isn't such a bad thing in that context.
Something that puzzles me about the article and some responses is the view on ABS.
In the article at least, I suspect it's just a way of expressing something else, but do you really keep longer safety distances because you know you don't have ABS? Or, to rephrase, do you really keep such short safety distances in an ABS car that you would require it to work to ensure your safety?
I've never triggered the ABS in my car except on ice, thus it seems to me that it would require a highly unusual emergency effort before I encountered it, and in turn I therefore drive in a way that doesn't take its presence into account.
In the article at least, I suspect it's just a way of expressing something else, but do you really keep longer safety distances because you know you don't have ABS? Or, to rephrase, do you really keep such short safety distances in an ABS car that you would require it to work to ensure your safety?
I've never triggered the ABS in my car except on ice, thus it seems to me that it would require a highly unusual emergency effort before I encountered it, and in turn I therefore drive in a way that doesn't take its presence into account.
trashbat said:
Something that puzzles me about the article and some responses is the view on ABS.
In the article at least, I suspect it's just a way of expressing something else, but do you really keep longer safety distances because you know you don't have ABS? Or, to rephrase, do you really keep such short safety distances in an ABS car that you would require it to work to ensure your safety?
I've never triggered the ABS in my car except on ice, thus it seems to me that it would require a highly unusual emergency effort before I encountered it, and in turn I therefore drive in a way that doesn't take its presence into account.
In the TVR I am very careful with stopping distances when wet, and yes I leave more than in the Lexus. I'm safe in the Lexus and leave appropriate room, but I leave even more in the TVR.In the article at least, I suspect it's just a way of expressing something else, but do you really keep longer safety distances because you know you don't have ABS? Or, to rephrase, do you really keep such short safety distances in an ABS car that you would require it to work to ensure your safety?
I've never triggered the ABS in my car except on ice, thus it seems to me that it would require a highly unusual emergency effort before I encountered it, and in turn I therefore drive in a way that doesn't take its presence into account.
I like ABS, like you it's rarely (if ever) used, but in the same breath I have locked the TVR up once and I don't want to do it again.
The article was more to highlight how idiot-proof a new car can be, rather than to scoff at modern safety systems. Knowing how a car behaves without the gizmos makes you understand car dynamics so much more.
"I make the return leg in about the same time as the outward run, but I am so much more focused throughout and it feels faster. I’ve worked harder, concentrated more and ended the run exhilarated and a little tired. Most of all I had respect for the TVR, and that was lacking when in the Mini."
So which car represents the cross over point ie. safety/comfort + involvement?
The E30 M3? 993 C2S?
So which car represents the cross over point ie. safety/comfort + involvement?
The E30 M3? 993 C2S?
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