RE: PH blog: interactive experience

RE: PH blog: interactive experience

Author
Discussion

traffman

2,263 posts

208 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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That's why i love the older machines.

They keep your soul alive.

portzi

2,296 posts

174 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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"I allow the misted windscreen to clear. My mindset has immediately altered and I’m watching dials"

this statement tipifies ever TVR driver I would think Garlick, made me chuckle, as you dont do this in any other sports car smile?


M666 EVO

1,124 posts

161 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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I agree with the sentiment but I can have both with 1 car

If I take the XJR out and want to take it easy, I drive carefully. If I want to feel a bit more alert, I just take the traction control off

Trying to pull away with the TC off with 370bhp behind you makes you concentrate just fine!

Bahnstormer

934 posts

245 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Now THAT is what driving is about !

Edmundo2

1,328 posts

209 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Bang on. I miss my Griff, ( and Chim ), so badly and starting to plan my future re entry to ownership. Once you've driven a Tiv, ( a good one ), nothing else really cuts it in terms of driver satisfaction. There are sharper and faster cars out there but not much that compares in terms of driver engagement. As for driving them in the conditions Garlik describes I agree completely - nothing substitutes the big torque/low weight/wet leaves combo in terms of driver focus!

itiejim

1,821 posts

204 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Mermaid said:
So which car represents the cross over point ie. safety/comfort + involvement?

The E30 M3? 993 C2S?
I think this is a really interesting question. I used my 1932 Wolseley Hornet Special for the daily grind the other day and really enjoyed the challenge of persuading an 80 year old bit of machinery to fit in with my work requirements.

Having said that, it's not exactly the last word in chassis dynamics and things definitely got more engaging before their appeal diminished in this digital world.

Where's the sweet spot? For me, with the exception of specialist lightweight vehicles (Caterhams, TVRs etc), it's probably the late 70's or early eighties with certain (inevitably RWD) cars. I reckon my 3 litre Alfa 75 must be somewhere near as would an E30 3 Series. After that capability overtakes interaction.

As fun and competent as Z4s, E46 M3s etc are, they're well past the sweet spot for me. Far too stable, competent and easy to drive fast!

Great article though, and one that reminds me how I justify keeping four cars. biggrin

Alfakid

9 posts

138 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Rawwr said:
You know you're in a drivers car when you get to your destination and feel mentally knackered and slightly relieved.
I was certainly both having been towed (on a rope!) through the centre of Leeds in my broken Alfa (not the first) with no battery power and p**sing down with rain. The most stressful and sweaty 'drive' I've ever had!!

Caractacus

2,604 posts

224 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Garlic, nicely put. smile

Oddly enough I was feeling the very same way not two days ago when I picked my E28 up from my mechanics. It was wet and the old girl still has her Yoko A048's on. The next day however, it was warm and the roads dry...;) Still needed to be mindful, but it was more about a dab of oppo on purpose. Happy days!

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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I think you've captured what a car like a TVR is there perfectly there MR G. back in the late 90's early 00'd I ran my Chim as a company car, and often had a long drive early in the morning to a client or a late return to a frosted car park and an hour or so's driving back.

The TVR would seem like totally the wrong choice as it demands that you concentrate on driving it rather than the day ahead or analysing the day, but it was for exactly that reason that I'd drove the Tiv.

Yes it is more demanding to drive ,and will punish for a mistake by trying to kill you, where as the mini probably wouldnt even skip a track on the cd multi changer. I found that forcing me to switch off and just concentrate on the driving I actually ended up less tired than driving home on auto pilot thinking about work. I also arrive to my meetings in a better frame of mind, more relaxed and exhilarated ready to crack on.


I've driven that car in some foul weather too, Ice, snow, fog heavy rain, and it did make you think more about what was going on. a prod of the accelerator would have the back end wagging, and careless braking or down changes were also to be avoided. I was regularly over taken on the motorway in bad weather by a rep tucked up in his heated arm chair gazing through his electrically heated screen, listening to the archers oblivious to the fact the road was like an ice rink and his chances of stopping his abc/tcs/ace equipped 2 ton monster in an emergency were nill.

TVR the Safety conscious drivers choice

carinaman

21,211 posts

171 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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It reminds me of this post:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

And Garlick's holiday article:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/26407.htm


On the journey to get the Chim you had to be somewhere by a certain time. On holiday you may not have that same time pressure, and you may well be in an entirely different 'we're on holiday and the sun is shining' frame of mind. Look at the affection felt for a hire car. A rental Fiat Punto figures heavily in a holiday in Italy be it getting lost in Florence or driving up a mountain road until the dirt track stopped near the summit. So it was a bit part player but it was Italian in Italy and we had adventures in it.

From this piece it seems like it was an adventure in the TVR, but a forgettable chore in the MINI. Have a Maxi adventure in a TVR?

Rawrr and another hit the nail on the head with me, in that sounds like you describing the differences between driving a car and riding a motorcycle.

I passed my car and bike test within weeks of each other and I know if I ever went back on a bike I'd ride like I drive, I'd be getting into corners and needing the brakes and sitting up and taking a different path than had originally been intended.

I once rode my motorcycle most of the way home from work in the snow. I was doing OK until going downhill on prefab concrete road with joining strips. I had some car 12-20 feet behind me, and I was thinking that if I did come off that car would just go straight over me, and would possibly be unable to steer so I stopped and started it pushing it.

Interesting to see another 'Join the IAM and put the fun back into driving' comment. I've seen a similar one elsewhere, but having done the IAM test years ago and several RoSPA tests since I am not sure I agree. I like applying myself and having my driving assessed and it's useful to have to reports to refer to but I can't say it makes my time on the road anymore enjoyable.

I occasionally do a 6-7 hour cross country drive to visit friends. If possible I leave around midnight getting there about 6AM. Perhaps it would be more fun in a TVR or a Supercharged Jag but would I be more likely to get caught and face a ban? What would those cars offer me additionally other than performance and more thirst? A sense of occasion? More admiring glances from others? A chat or two about them when stopping to refuel perhaps?

I wonder how much of it is emotional, wishy washy clap trap we use to try to justify our interests and purchasing decisions? Garlick is bound to feel more for the TVR journey as it's his, such a journey reinforces his decision to own it and spend money it. The trip home got involved getting his prized possession safely home unscathed. We rarely value things that come for free be they access to a swimming pool or NHS doctors appointments. How much of the standard of driving on our roads is due to cars and vehicles that aren't owned by their drivers?


I agree with the poster that made the point that driving like everything else has been dumbed down. We view driving as a right rather than a privilege.


I love cars but driving isn't fun these days.

Edited by carinaman on Monday 1st October 23:42

FestivAli

1,085 posts

237 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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What you have described with the TVR is basically what it's like to ride a motorbike. Joy with occasional clenching basically. And unfortunately for me, occasional broken arm as I got knocked off mine (my fault says gut feeling) by a car on saturday...

Fat Albert

1,392 posts

180 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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I had a similar experience just over a week ago when i went to pick my Porsche 968 Sport up after doing nearly 1,000 miles in the Mini Cooper D Courtesy car.

Everything felt very low and heavy when I got in and puller away and there was no little turbo surge as soon as you touched the throttle, all of a sudden your having to think about placement and balance as you get to a roundabout...absolutely great to be back in the Porker though and looking forward to my 230 mile round trip today!

PS ABS doesn't necessarily shorten your braking distance, in some cases it can extend it...ABS is designed to allow you to have some steering capaibility whilst under braking...

Chilliman

11,990 posts

160 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2012
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Garlick, spot on mate biggrin

Hence also the saying, TVR....everything else is just a car wink

Or,

(I'm really sorry about this but I couldn't help it)

TVR......because Porsche are for girls getmecoat

Edited by Chilliman on Tuesday 2nd October 13:05

justjones

1 posts

137 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
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Garlick,

If you like having to think, anticipate, and immerse yourself in the operation of a machine. You should try something that goes faster than any car and pulls so many G's it makes an F1 car's g force feel like a go cart, you should try an aerobatic plane and learn to fly if you haven't already learned. Far more rewarding to master than a MINI and a Chimaera on a slick road I'm sure.

Cheers

Edited by justjones on Wednesday 3rd October 01:38

RichB

51,430 posts

283 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
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justjones said:
Garlick,

If you like having to think, anticipate, and immerse yourself in the operation of a machine. You should try something that goes faster than any car and pulls so many G's it makes an F1 car's g force feel like a go cart, you should try an aerobatic plane and learn to fly if you haven't already learned. Far more rewarding to master than a MINI and a Chimaera on a slick road I'm sure.

Cheers
Worst ever, I can fly aerobatics post ever biggrinbiglaughbiggrin

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
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justjones said:
Garlick,

If you like having to think, anticipate, and immerse yourself in the operation of a machine. You should try something that goes faster than any car and pulls so many G's it makes an F1 car's g force feel like a go cart, you should try an aerobatic plane and learn to fly if you haven't already learned. Far more rewarding to master than a MINI and a Chimaera on a slick road I'm sure.
Of course, the point of owning a road car that makes you feel like you're an integral part of proceedings rather than a passenger who happens to have a steering wheel in front of him and in the case of the Chim is quite practical as well as long as you don't need nore than two seats, is that you can go out and live that experience whenever you feel like it, as well as every time you want/need to go somewhere. It doesn't require any arrangements or pre-meditation, just grab the keys and go. It doesn't cost any more than a fuel and a bit of wear on consumables either.

The above is a point that seems to be roundly missed by the Power Rangers, the trackday onanists and the 'why bother if you can do extreme sports XYZ' brigade alike. A TVR (or similar) works as a car. You can do everything you'd use a Golf for except carry more than one passenger or very large flatpack furniture items (a couple of Expedit bookcases from Ikea proved to be no problem). With the roof up (a 20 second procedure with experience) it's as snug and dry as any tintop.

The beauty is that it takes all these mundane runabout tasks and turns them into something to be savoured.

RichB

51,430 posts

283 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
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[redacted]

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
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RichB said:
There's a few of us on here who fly ... not done much this year, weather's been st! hehe
QED. biggrin

Garlick

40,601 posts

239 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
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justjones said:
Garlick,

If you like having to think, anticipate, and immerse yourself in the operation of a machine. You should try something that goes faster than any car and pulls so many G's it makes an F1 car's g force feel like a go cart, you should try an aerobatic plane and learn to fly if you haven't already learned. Far more rewarding to master than a MINI and a Chimaera on a slick road I'm sure.

Cheers
Closest I've been to aerobatics was doing a bunny hop on my BMX in 1986 and a flight to Greece on Dan Air not so long after.

I'd love to have a go but my eyesight, and lack of funds to buy an aircraft, would hinder me.

RichB

51,430 posts

283 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
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[redacted]