RE: PH blog: interactive experience

RE: PH blog: interactive experience

Author
Discussion

Alfanatic

9,339 posts

218 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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TTGuy said:
So are we saying, that from a pistonheads perspective, it is better to have a car with rubbish headlights and no ABS in the rain than a trouble free modern car? And why? Because you have to concentrate more on trying not to crash...and this is a good thing, right?
If the objective is to enjoy the drive, then yes, I read it as saying the old sportscar is a better bet than the new hatch. No real surprise there.

If the objective is to reduce the chance of crashing, different conclusion. The article is just pointing out strengths and weaknesses of both cars, the valuation of those strengths and weaknesses is undoubtedly going to vary between drivers, and even between moods.

Gizmoish

18,150 posts

208 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Mermaid said:
"I make the return leg in about the same time as the outward run, but I am so much more focused throughout and it feels faster. I’ve worked harder, concentrated more and ended the run exhilarated and a little tired. Most of all I had respect for the TVR, and that was lacking when in the Mini."

So which car represents the cross over point ie. safety/comfort + involvement?

The E30 M3? 993 C2S?
BMW Z4M.

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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For me it's more the TVR being so much more erm, intense as a driving experience that I'm much less likely to inadvertently run a bit close to the car in front (or display other signs of bad/sloppy driving) than in a regular daily runabout. You can't help but being concentrated and focused on the driving because the car places you right at the thick of the action.

ABS wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the way I'd drive it, things like anaesthesized electrically assisted steering, vehicle stability control systems working silently in the background to make the car feel more stable and secure than it really is (like it is calibrated to do in some 'premium' SUVs), a solid roof, a higher architecture and driving position and a truckload of soundproofing most probably would.

trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Garlick said:
In the TVR I am very careful with stopping distances when wet, and yes I leave more than in the Lexus. I'm safe in the Lexus and leave appropriate room, but I leave even more in the TVR. ...The article was more to highlight how idiot-proof a new car can be
This is probably about more than ABS though - I know the brakes on my Alfa are less than brilliant overall (never *really* tested) so I leave more than I might in a new car. However that's a decision based on overall feel under normal braking experience, which ABS doesn't feed into. I figured that the spirit of the article was about this rather than cold calculations about ABS, but then a few people said the same thing.

ceebmoj

1,898 posts

260 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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TameRacingDriver said:
I think some people perhaps like the idea of a totally driver focused car, however, the reality of using such a vehicle day to day maybe isn't so appealing.

I was seriously thinking about cars like VX220s and the like before finally settling on the 350Z. I know the two cars could not be more different in their approach, but when I broke up my driving into the type of driving I do and the kind of usage it would see, it was obvious the Z would be a better choice, because this would be a car that would be hooned about occasionally, but more often than not, my GF is in the car with me, and sadly, she does not appreciate high speed cornering, being sat on the ground in a hard seat and other traits that come from having a really raw, hardcore car. I know, MTFU and all that, but I've got to say, I quite like having a car with a significant amount of comfort too.
Some interesting points. Obviously its all down to personal choice. I decided that I did not want to find my self in the mundane car when the conditions where right. My designer imposter 7 is clearly the inferior car so much of the time and yet it is so right. I guess some times you do thing because they are a challenge.

PS, The OH fell a sleep while in the car on the way back from a drive just showing the car cant be that un-refined.






RX7

258 posts

243 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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TTGuy said:
So are we saying, that from a pistonheads perspective, it is better to have a car with rubbish headlights and no ABS in the rain than a trouble free modern car? And why? Because you have to concentrate more on trying not to crash...and this is a good thing, right?
In a slightly different theme, i felt much safer when i switched from car to bike for a good few years, as the helmet went on i was so switched on for the easiest of journeys it made me realise how lazy my driving had become through complacency and i think, made me a better car driver or at least more apparent of my surroundings!

Hazy days of going for drive for the sake of it are mostly long gone, i seem to find myself now planning a trip for an event and making sure i enjoy the drive there by leaving before the rest of the world is up and relax to the fact on the most part the drive home wont be as enjoyable, unless im lucky smile


V8Bart

788 posts

189 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Top Job!!

Best Article on PH in weeks. wink

Gooly

965 posts

147 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Definitely one of the best PH articles I've read. Breath of fresh air after some of the press releases for certain current cars as well.

bagseye

111 posts

176 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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I'm lucky that the area I live has so many fantastic roads (Highlands) and every drive seems to turn into a time trial. On a clear day, which is rare up here, you can really plan your next few bends and attack it thinking you are Schumey at his best.

Just the other day I was driving to Ullapool in the missus' Type R, which she hates, and found myself having a steady chase with a BMW Z4. No crazy speeds or anything dangerous. Just good driving. Hitting apexs, braking late. You cant help it on these roads.

For me driving is an absolute pleasure.

Warwick67

418 posts

213 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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I think everyone should be obliged to spend a year on a bike to really appreciate the extent to which you should be aware of whats going on around you on the road. Then perhaps when I'm on a motorway in my old TVR 2500M I wouldn't have some pleb sitting on my back bumper and another pulling into my breaking distance from the car in front of me - I want o go faster too, just safely!
The TVR is a lot more demanding than my modern car (E46 M3) and it takes longer to get anywhere but its certainly a lot more fun....

2manycars

2,735 posts

177 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Hmmm, quite interesting the views we all share.

I too am under no illusion that 'driver aids' actually hinder the drivers performance.

I also believe that there's very little fun to be had on the roads nowadays.

I've always had some sort of fast car, whether it be an Aston, Porsche, Ferrari, etc, etc.

But not anymore, unfortunately the thrill of fast driving has died for me.

That's why i went and bought a Merc estate (also to take my bikes to places yonder).

The car companies are forever striving to better their competition by releasing their new models with more technology, more safety, more nonsense.

I just don't feel involved with the cars or the roads anymore, i have now changed my thrills to MX and Downhill MTBing.

It is awful because i've always 'lived' cars, however i find myself of late just sitting in the cars and saying "meh".

I miss the days of when i used to have my e34 520se (with LSD), i could always hit a few cheeky roundabouts in the wet at night without having to worry about police,congested roads, the BIB, bus lanes, coppers, speed bumps, the fuzz, gatso's, the dibble, ANPRs, the rozzers, those bloody stupid Smart Car Camera cars, etc, etc, you get the point.

Where once we used to rely on our own eagle eyes to sniff out the police waiting to zap us for speeding, now we have intergrated Sat Navs with speed camera alerts.

I'm i the only one who thinks we've gone too far, George Orwell would be saying "I told you so".

Mega rant over

Pete

JuniorJet

417 posts

159 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Garlick said:
alexlex85 said:
"grinding my teeth a little such is the concentration to not only see ahead but to actually drive the car safely in these conditions" -A little bit to much I would say.It is not North Pole
I do that regularly when I concentrate, no idea why smile
Grinding? More like chattering... it's getting bloody cold now!

Went for a blast down past ripley and the lotus garage on Sunday at around 4pm in my Z4M (roof down all the way and back) and by 5pm there was a real chill in the air, I had to roll my sleeves down!

Gizmoish said:
Mermaid said:
"I make the return leg in about the same time as the outward run, but I am so much more focused throughout and it feels faster. I’ve worked harder, concentrated more and ended the run exhilarated and a little tired. Most of all I had respect for the TVR, and that was lacking when in the Mini."

So which car represents the cross over point ie. safety/comfort + involvement?

The E30 M3? 993 C2S?
BMW Z4M.
+1 biglaugh

Edited by JuniorJet on Monday 1st October 17:34

RX7

258 posts

243 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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2manycars said:
I'm i the only one who thinks we've gone too far, George Orwell would be saying "I told you so"
Nope!

The war on the motorist got left unchallenged for far too long, successive governments squeezing every last drop out of us and the safety campaigners and health and the nanny state making up ridiculous schemes to make the roads a safer place!

Any town i have driven in or through is mostly a farce of traffic lights on roundabouts and road markings and signs to steer us into a jam, our free thinking and decision making has been taken away and the roads have become a worse place for it! Not that i enjoy motorway driving but even that is one of the most painful experiences i have to endure, no lane discipline, no sensible gaps left to the car in front, people cutting in and out, its terrifying sometimes!

I would like to see a campaign to improve driving, rather than just saying speeding is the cause of most accidents. Could you imagine points on your licence for sitting in the middle lane, bring that into play and traffic might even flow smile

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Monday 1st October 2012
quotequote all
Gizmoish said:
Mermaid said:
"I make the return leg in about the same time as the outward run, but I am so much more focused throughout and it feels faster. I’ve worked harder, concentrated more and ended the run exhilarated and a little tired. Most of all I had respect for the TVR, and that was lacking when in the Mini."

So which car represents the cross over point ie. safety/comfort + involvement?

The E30 M3? 993 C2S?
BMW Z4M.
I can see that - a modern TVR, an uncompromising chassis , wonderful engine & the safety bits.

Garlick

40,601 posts

239 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not really, I've done it, but I don't want to take the chance again.

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Monday 1st October 2012
quotequote all
Must say the only time I locked up a wheel in the TVR was on track and even though I was braking into a corner from a fastish straight it was very undramatic. I remember thinking 'where's that smoke from?' before getting told 'I saw you lock up in that last corner' in the pitlane redface

Zad

12,695 posts

235 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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All ABSs are definitely not created equal. Although I suppose the same can be said for any braking system. Older and simpler systems tend to work on just 1 or 2 channels, that is to say when they sense locking they release the hydraulic pressure on all 4 wheels or on a pair. The better systems control all 4 individually, and only cut in when locking actually occurs. Obviously, retaining braking on 3 wheels is better than none at all. Even the best driver cannot modulate the brake pressure on 4 wheels at the same time. Unfortunately many manufacturers use this as an excuse to not properly engineer the braking system in the first place.

TVRs. For people who want to drive cars.
MINIs. For people who don't.

To be fair, even the most petrol headed of us have days when we just want to get to work at the press of a button. For the rest of the time there are proper cars. Long may it be so.

whythem

773 posts

176 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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Great article, the main difference between the two journeys was concentration or as IAM's would call it "roadcraft". The TVR makes garlik a better and more involved driver because the car demands respect in those conditions. However, in reality every drive should demand respect and attention, regardless of vehicle.

I used to think driving fun, was tearing around as fast as I could, having done my IAM's driving fun is a different game now, and one that for the moment is more fun. Below is the new game I play every time I drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-f360qlwp8&fea...

truck71

2,328 posts

171 months

Monday 1st October 2012
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"I’ve worked harder, concentrated more and ended the run exhilarated and a little tired."

Had to chuckle at this- last year following a long leg of a Euro trip in the Tuscan I remember getting out in a small Italian town hoping for a round of applause for the effort of the days drive. You then realise it's just you who's experienced the whole days driving and everything it's entailed- proper memories!

paranoid airbag

2,679 posts

158 months

Monday 1st October 2012
quotequote all
whythem said:
Great article, the main difference between the two journeys was concentration or as IAM's would call it "roadcraft". The TVR makes garlik a better and more involved driver because the car demands respect in those conditions. However, in reality every drive should demand respect and attention, regardless of vehicle.

I used to think driving fun, was tearing around as fast as I could, having done my IAM's driving fun is a different game now, and one that for the moment is more fun. Below is the new game I play every time I drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-f360qlwp8&fea...
oooh, I know that road, cheers! Enjoyed seeing how an advanced driver is tackling a road I know well.