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whythem

667 posts

60 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Great article, the main difference between the two journeys was concentration or as IAM's would call it "roadcraft". The TVR makes garlik a better and more involved driver because the car demands respect in those conditions. However, in reality every drive should demand respect and attention, regardless of vehicle.

I used to think driving fun, was tearing around as fast as I could, having done my IAM's driving fun is a different game now, and one that for the moment is more fun. Below is the new game I play every time I drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-f360qlwp8&fea...

truck71

861 posts

55 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
"I’ve worked harder, concentrated more and ended the run exhilarated and a little tired."

Had to chuckle at this- last year following a long leg of a Euro trip in the Tuscan I remember getting out in a small Italian town hoping for a round of applause for the effort of the days drive. You then realise it's just you who's experienced the whole days driving and everything it's entailed- proper memories!

paranoid airbag

1,927 posts

42 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
whythem said:
Great article, the main difference between the two journeys was concentration or as IAM's would call it "roadcraft". The TVR makes garlik a better and more involved driver because the car demands respect in those conditions. However, in reality every drive should demand respect and attention, regardless of vehicle.

I used to think driving fun, was tearing around as fast as I could, having done my IAM's driving fun is a different game now, and one that for the moment is more fun. Below is the new game I play every time I drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-f360qlwp8&fea...
oooh, I know that road, cheers! Enjoyed seeing how an advanced driver is tackling a road I know well.

traffman

1,571 posts

92 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
That's why i love the older machines.

They keep your soul alive.

portzi

899 posts

58 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
"I allow the misted windscreen to clear. My mindset has immediately altered and I’m watching dials"

this statement tipifies ever TVR driver I would think Garlick, made me chuckle, as you dont do this in any other sports car smile?


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M666 EVO

882 posts

45 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
I agree with the sentiment but I can have both with 1 car

If I take the XJR out and want to take it easy, I drive carefully. If I want to feel a bit more alert, I just take the traction control off

Trying to pull away with the TC off with 370bhp behind you makes you concentrate just fine!

Bahnstormer

786 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Now THAT is what driving is about !

Edmundo2

530 posts

93 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Bang on. I miss my Griff, ( and Chim ), so badly and starting to plan my future re entry to ownership. Once you've driven a Tiv, ( a good one ), nothing else really cuts it in terms of driver satisfaction. There are sharper and faster cars out there but not much that compares in terms of driver engagement. As for driving them in the conditions Garlik describes I agree completely - nothing substitutes the big torque/low weight/wet leaves combo in terms of driver focus!

itiejim

1,712 posts

88 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Mermaid said:
So which car represents the cross over point ie. safety/comfort + involvement?

The E30 M3? 993 C2S?
I think this is a really interesting question. I used my 1932 Wolseley Hornet Special for the daily grind the other day and really enjoyed the challenge of persuading an 80 year old bit of machinery to fit in with my work requirements.

Having said that, it's not exactly the last word in chassis dynamics and things definitely got more engaging before their appeal diminished in this digital world.

Where's the sweet spot? For me, with the exception of specialist lightweight vehicles (Caterhams, TVRs etc), it's probably the late 70's or early eighties with certain (inevitably RWD) cars. I reckon my 3 litre Alfa 75 must be somewhere near as would an E30 3 Series. After that capability overtakes interaction.

As fun and competent as Z4s, E46 M3s etc are, they're well past the sweet spot for me. Far too stable, competent and easy to drive fast!

Great article though, and one that reminds me how I justify keeping four cars. biggrin

The Crack Fox

9,632 posts

75 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
SomeMinorTrouble said:
"Driving is fun, it’s just a shame many of us never get to experience what driving actually means these days."
So true
+1. PHers drive. Everyone else on the road is just commuting. wink

Alfakid

9 posts

22 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Rawwr said:
You know you're in a drivers car when you get to your destination and feel mentally knackered and slightly relieved.
I was certainly both having been towed (on a rope!) through the centre of Leeds in my broken Alfa (not the first) with no battery power and p**sing down with rain. The most stressful and sweaty 'drive' I've ever had!!

Caractacus

2,423 posts

108 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Garlic, nicely put. smile

Oddly enough I was feeling the very same way not two days ago when I picked my E28 up from my mechanics. It was wet and the old girl still has her Yoko A048's on. The next day however, it was warm and the roads dry...;) Still needed to be mindful, but it was more about a dab of oppo on purpose. Happy days!

Graham

15,194 posts

167 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
I think you've captured what a car like a TVR is there perfectly there MR G. back in the late 90's early 00'd I ran my Chim as a company car, and often had a long drive early in the morning to a client or a late return to a frosted car park and an hour or so's driving back.

The TVR would seem like totally the wrong choice as it demands that you concentrate on driving it rather than the day ahead or analysing the day, but it was for exactly that reason that I'd drove the Tiv.

Yes it is more demanding to drive ,and will punish for a mistake by trying to kill you, where as the mini probably wouldnt even skip a track on the cd multi changer. I found that forcing me to switch off and just concentrate on the driving I actually ended up less tired than driving home on auto pilot thinking about work. I also arrive to my meetings in a better frame of mind, more relaxed and exhilarated ready to crack on.


I've driven that car in some foul weather too, Ice, snow, fog heavy rain, and it did make you think more about what was going on. a prod of the accelerator would have the back end wagging, and careless braking or down changes were also to be avoided. I was regularly over taken on the motorway in bad weather by a rep tucked up in his heated arm chair gazing through his electrically heated screen, listening to the archers oblivious to the fact the road was like an ice rink and his chances of stopping his abc/tcs/ace equipped 2 ton monster in an emergency were nill.

TVR the Safety conscious drivers choice

carinaman

7,649 posts

55 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
It reminds me of this post:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

And Garlick's holiday article:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/26407.htm


On the journey to get the Chim you had to be somewhere by a certain time. On holiday you may not have that same time pressure, and you may well be in an entirely different 'we're on holiday and the sun is shining' frame of mind. Look at the affection felt for a hire car. A rental Fiat Punto figures heavily in a holiday in Italy be it getting lost in Florence or driving up a mountain road until the dirt track stopped near the summit. So it was a bit part player but it was Italian in Italy and we had adventures in it.

From this piece it seems like it was an adventure in the TVR, but a forgettable chore in the MINI. Have a Maxi adventure in a TVR?

Rawrr and another hit the nail on the head with me, in that sounds like you describing the differences between driving a car and riding a motorcycle.

I passed my car and bike test within weeks of each other and I know if I ever went back on a bike I'd ride like I drive, I'd be getting into corners and needing the brakes and sitting up and taking a different path than had originally been intended.

I once rode my motorcycle most of the way home from work in the snow. I was doing OK until going downhill on prefab concrete road with joining strips. I had some car 12-20 feet behind me, and I was thinking that if I did come off that car would just go straight over me, and would possibly be unable to steer so I stopped and started it pushing it.

Interesting to see another 'Join the IAM and put the fun back into driving' comment. I've seen a similar one elsewhere, but having done the IAM test years ago and several RoSPA tests since I am not sure I agree. I like applying myself and having my driving assessed and it's useful to have to reports to refer to but I can't say it makes my time on the road anymore enjoyable.

I occasionally do a 6-7 hour cross country drive to visit friends. If possible I leave around midnight getting there about 6AM. Perhaps it would be more fun in a TVR or a Supercharged Jag but would I be more likely to get caught and face a ban? What would those cars offer me additionally other than performance and more thirst? A sense of occasion? More admiring glances from others? A chat or two about them when stopping to refuel perhaps?

I wonder how much of it is emotional, wishy washy clap trap we use to try to justify our interests and purchasing decisions? Garlick is bound to feel more for the TVR journey as it's his, such a journey reinforces his decision to own it and spend money it. The trip home got involved getting his prized possession safely home unscathed. We rarely value things that come for free be they access to a swimming pool or NHS doctors appointments. How much of the standard of driving on our roads is due to cars and vehicles that aren't owned by their drivers?


I agree with the poster that made the point that driving like everything else has been dumbed down. We view driving as a right rather than a privilege.


I love cars but driving isn't fun these days.

Edited by carinaman on Monday 1st October 23:42

FestivAli

970 posts

121 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
What you have described with the TVR is basically what it's like to ride a motorbike. Joy with occasional clenching basically. And unfortunately for me, occasional broken arm as I got knocked off mine (my fault says gut feeling) by a car on saturday...

Fat Albert

1,135 posts

64 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
I had a similar experience just over a week ago when i went to pick my Porsche 968 Sport up after doing nearly 1,000 miles in the Mini Cooper D Courtesy car.

Everything felt very low and heavy when I got in and puller away and there was no little turbo surge as soon as you touched the throttle, all of a sudden your having to think about placement and balance as you get to a roundabout...absolutely great to be back in the Porker though and looking forward to my 230 mile round trip today!

PS ABS doesn't necessarily shorten your braking distance, in some cases it can extend it...ABS is designed to allow you to have some steering capaibility whilst under braking...

Chilliman

5,145 posts

44 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Garlick, spot on mate biggrin

Hence also the saying, TVR....everything else is just a car wink

Or,

(I'm really sorry about this but I couldn't help it)

TVR......because Porsche are for girls getmecoat

Edited by Chilliman on Tuesday 2nd October 13:05

cmoose

24,470 posts

112 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Fat Albert said:
PS ABS doesn't necessarily shorten your braking distance, in some cases it can extend it...ABS is designed to allow you to have some steering capaibility whilst under braking...
To be fair, I think for the average driver in a panic braking situation, especially in the wet, it does reduce distances and is very much installed with that in mind!

justjones

1 posts

21 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Garlick,

If you like having to think, anticipate, and immerse yourself in the operation of a machine. You should try something that goes faster than any car and pulls so many G's it makes an F1 car's g force feel like a go cart, you should try an aerobatic plane and learn to fly if you haven't already learned. Far more rewarding to master than a MINI and a Chimaera on a slick road I'm sure.

Cheers

Edited by justjones on Wednesday 3rd October 01:38

RichB

29,659 posts

167 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
justjones said:
Garlick,

If you like having to think, anticipate, and immerse yourself in the operation of a machine. You should try something that goes faster than any car and pulls so many G's it makes an F1 car's g force feel like a go cart, you should try an aerobatic plane and learn to fly if you haven't already learned. Far more rewarding to master than a MINI and a Chimaera on a slick road I'm sure.

Cheers
Worst ever, I can fly aerobatics post ever biggrinbiglaughbiggrin

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