RE: Spotted: Ford Sierra RS500 Cosworth
Discussion
blade7 said:
Not to difficult to build a 5/600 bhp dyno queen engine I guess but unless there's a stronger block around today how long will it last.
They will certainly take 700bhp without any problems if you use the 4x4 200 block. We did crack a block at Brunters but were running around 900bhp on Nitrous. Its not cracking at 840bhp & mine did 6k last year in that Spec. You cannot compare what is available today with back then, there have been 25 years development.By the way my Dyno queen has done 28 topspeed runs held the Cosworth rs Topspeed record for over 8 years & been runner-up in the drag at totb.
Seems to be a lot of ill informed nonsense on this thread (as usual these days).
Rs500's road cars were already trading at close to £20k in 2008, there are very few orignal cars left and collectors have been buying them as investments hence prices going up.
Group A race Cosworths have also rocketed in value in the past 5 years as there are now race series to use them in (again) eg in Auz.
The value of these cars is based on rarity, motorsport heritage, and yes - nostalgia. These are not the only iconic cars in the uk that have soared in value since the banking crisis.
Rs500's road cars were already trading at close to £20k in 2008, there are very few orignal cars left and collectors have been buying them as investments hence prices going up.
Group A race Cosworths have also rocketed in value in the past 5 years as there are now race series to use them in (again) eg in Auz.
The value of these cars is based on rarity, motorsport heritage, and yes - nostalgia. These are not the only iconic cars in the uk that have soared in value since the banking crisis.
blade7 said:
s m said:
Supposedly, at one point they were going to be all silver in colour, then they wanted all black....... but had to make do with whatever colours were left
Or Ford had a mountain of Pinto blocks looking for a home.
- I meant the bodywork colour rather than the blockrallycross said:
Seems to be a lot of ill informed nonsense on this thread (as usual these days).
Rs500's road cars were already trading at close to £20k in 2008, there are very few orignal cars left and collectors have been buying them as investments hence prices going up.
Group A race Cosworths have also rocketed in value in the past 5 years as there are now race series to use them in (again) eg in Auz.
The value of these cars is based on rarity, motorsport heritage, and yes - nostalgia. These are not the only iconic cars in the uk that have soared in value since the banking crisis.
Perfect and i agree...like it or not there worth the money or should i say there selling for 40-50+k easy for a original low mile example...if there selling how can you argue about the price...Rs500's road cars were already trading at close to £20k in 2008, there are very few orignal cars left and collectors have been buying them as investments hence prices going up.
Group A race Cosworths have also rocketed in value in the past 5 years as there are now race series to use them in (again) eg in Auz.
The value of these cars is based on rarity, motorsport heritage, and yes - nostalgia. These are not the only iconic cars in the uk that have soared in value since the banking crisis.
rallycross said:
Seems to be a lot of ill informed nonsense on this thread (as usual these days).
Rs500's road cars were already trading at close to £20k in 2008, there are very few orignal cars left and collectors have been buying them as investments hence prices going up.
Group A race Cosworths have also rocketed in value in the past 5 years as there are now race series to use them in (again) eg in Auz.
The value of these cars is based on rarity, motorsport heritage, and yes - nostalgia. These are not the only iconic cars in the uk that have soared in value since the banking crisis.
I agree, though stating that they're about to overtake the RS200 is a similar sort of nonsense, to me at least.Rs500's road cars were already trading at close to £20k in 2008, there are very few orignal cars left and collectors have been buying them as investments hence prices going up.
Group A race Cosworths have also rocketed in value in the past 5 years as there are now race series to use them in (again) eg in Auz.
The value of these cars is based on rarity, motorsport heritage, and yes - nostalgia. These are not the only iconic cars in the uk that have soared in value since the banking crisis.
Collectors buying as investments is often the first warning of a price crash. Values are linked to speculation as opposed to their worth to an enthusiast. That's a worry. Are the people who are buying them doing so because, to them, the car's worth it? Or is there an element of resale involved.
On the flip side, I'm now 30 and when I was about 8 someone in my village had an RS500. An RS500 would make me point and look in the same way a Ferrari 328 from a similar period wouldn't.
The RS500 is about as interesting as the car market gets in terms of values. It's rare and highly sought despite it's humble origins. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out
loose cannon said:
Amazing how vauxhall managed it with a wobbly Astra gte cavalier gsi
Vectra and pre btcc with vivas and magnums,
Alfa with a 155
Chevrolet with the cruze
Seat with a diesel Leon,
Etc etc etc
Sierra cosworth great car by all means
But it is what it is ;0)
Group A regulations that the Sierra, E30 M3, Merc 190 etc ran to are MUCH closer to road cars than the Super touring regs that the cavalier and so on ran with.Vectra and pre btcc with vivas and magnums,
Alfa with a 155
Chevrolet with the cruze
Seat with a diesel Leon,
Etc etc etc
Sierra cosworth great car by all means
But it is what it is ;0)
In ST you could use any engine from your current range for example, custom suspension setups, moving the engine around all sorts... The whole idea of ST regs was to ensure that any manufacturer would have a suitable 'base' car to be competitive because the road car often had virtually nothing of note in common with the race version.
ref someone's comments about Cav GSi Etc?
err you do realise that was a different era and the cars were by then trimmed done to max 2 litres and N/A? (turbo's were banned)
Ford tried it with a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 N/A (not a cosworth) and it was crap. Funny thing is, it was the success of the RS500 that led to that sitiation. Although I have to say the sight of Toyota Carina's and Cavalier GSi's going wheel to wheel was some of the best racing I have ever seen.
err you do realise that was a different era and the cars were by then trimmed done to max 2 litres and N/A? (turbo's were banned)
Ford tried it with a Sierra Sapphire 2.0 N/A (not a cosworth) and it was crap. Funny thing is, it was the success of the RS500 that led to that sitiation. Although I have to say the sight of Toyota Carina's and Cavalier GSi's going wheel to wheel was some of the best racing I have ever seen.
Well aware of the different types of touring car racing, think you both missed my point entirely,
The point being you can make any shopping car win races if you throw enough at it , I like the cossie as much as the next man, so not quite sure what your trying to get at tbh,
Maybe your just an rs fanboy getting a bit jittery at me just calling it a ford sierra
Which is fair enough I no how touchy you rs boys get ;0)
The point being you can make any shopping car win races if you throw enough at it , I like the cossie as much as the next man, so not quite sure what your trying to get at tbh,
Maybe your just an rs fanboy getting a bit jittery at me just calling it a ford sierra
Which is fair enough I no how touchy you rs boys get ;0)
loose cannon said:
Well aware of the different types of touring car racing, think you both missed my point entirely,
The point being you can make any shopping car win races if you throw enough at it , I like the cossie as much as the next man, so not quite sure what your trying to get at tbh,
Maybe your just an rs fanboy getting a bit jittery at me just calling it a ford sierra
Which is fair enough I no how touchy you rs boys get ;0)
I'm no RS fanboy, although I am a big fan of that era of racing.The point being you can make any shopping car win races if you throw enough at it , I like the cossie as much as the next man, so not quite sure what your trying to get at tbh,
Maybe your just an rs fanboy getting a bit jittery at me just calling it a ford sierra
Which is fair enough I no how touchy you rs boys get ;0)
It wouldn't have mattered how much racing teams spent on say the R31 Skyline or the Holden Commodore, BMW E30 M3 etc, the framework of the rules Group A was run within meant the RS500 was the best car, simple as that. The best suited (until the R32 Skyline) to contest the series within the framework of the regs.
no-one else really had much success with other models until the R32 came out in 89 (either manufacturer or serious private team) as they didnt have the suitable road going car, and the car makers were not prepared to homologate the 'bits' required to make the HP etc to challenge the Sierra. It was not a question of budgets.
The ST era was ruled by budget as you state, enough money well spent bought the wins. if the rules were similar to group A the M3 would have carried on winning every race and the Cavalier etc would be some way behind I suspect.
If you talking about budget at manufacturer level, then yes, if someone had been prepared to spend the money to make a roadgoing homolagtion car, money no object, the sierra could have been beaten on the track.
Apart from the obvious, my Dad having 1, I watched the BTCC with Robb Gravett and Mike Smith giving Andy Rouse a kicking. Personally I thought he was a knob and that was back when I was young. I watched the Aussie touring cars on Screensport, with the B&H Cossie's and BMW's. And I'd want an R32, because Godzilla was king at Bathurst and looked pretty cool back in 1989/90.
I'd been brought up on the blue oval and, and been in any number of fast Fords throughout my lifetime, helped having my Dad, aunt and step-Dad all work for Ford Europe in the past 30+ years at some point.
So maybe I'm a tad biased. But the RS500 is still pretty iconic in terms of achievement, and the fact it was probably a joy-riders dream car. Must've been when my Dad's got nicked in Leeds.
And it does become subjective as to whether people like it. I talked to a guy who hated European fords with a passion for being euro-boxes (bit of a snob really) but liked the fact I had a Mustang. Work that out. Ford's are Fords at the end of the day and you go with what you like. Any number of sheds are really tempting, but still it means leaving a safety net.
I'd been brought up on the blue oval and, and been in any number of fast Fords throughout my lifetime, helped having my Dad, aunt and step-Dad all work for Ford Europe in the past 30+ years at some point.
So maybe I'm a tad biased. But the RS500 is still pretty iconic in terms of achievement, and the fact it was probably a joy-riders dream car. Must've been when my Dad's got nicked in Leeds.
And it does become subjective as to whether people like it. I talked to a guy who hated European fords with a passion for being euro-boxes (bit of a snob really) but liked the fact I had a Mustang. Work that out. Ford's are Fords at the end of the day and you go with what you like. Any number of sheds are really tempting, but still it means leaving a safety net.
I'd have snapped the man's hand off if I'd got offered 62k for the car. Might be a long, long time until someone beats it, if ever.
loose cannon said:
Well done you have finally cracked it sm
;0)
The price on any of these types of car depend solely on nostalgia and how deep your pocket is, they all have appeal some more to others,
Would I pay £65k for a sierra no chance,
Ask me again when I have 40 million in the bank I'm sure I might possibly do something stupid and purchase 1,
;0)
;0)
The price on any of these types of car depend solely on nostalgia and how deep your pocket is, they all have appeal some more to others,
Would I pay £65k for a sierra no chance,
Ask me again when I have 40 million in the bank I'm sure I might possibly do something stupid and purchase 1,
;0)
Edited by loose cannon on Thursday 4th October 19:31
nickpage said:
I'd have snapped the man's hand off if I'd got offered 62k for the car. Might be a long, long time until someone beats it, if ever.
But you are looking from the point of view from the outside, not owning the car or knowing the sellers circumstances.... I suspect most people saying they wouldn't buy/would have sold for that money don't own an appreciating classic, and 62k would be a life changing amount of money.loose cannon said:
Well done you have finally cracked it sm
;0)
The price on any of these types of car depend solely on nostalgia and how deep your pocket is, they all have appeal some more to others,
Would I pay £65k for a sierra no chance,
Ask me again when I have 40 million in the bank I'm sure I might possibly do something stupid and purchase 1,
;0)
;0)
The price on any of these types of car depend solely on nostalgia and how deep your pocket is, they all have appeal some more to others,
Would I pay £65k for a sierra no chance,
Ask me again when I have 40 million in the bank I'm sure I might possibly do something stupid and purchase 1,
;0)
Edited by loose cannon on Thursday 4th October 19:31
From the sellers point of view, why is he going to take 13k under the asking price, when he is quite happy owning the car if it does not sell for a figure he feels he could part with it for?
I get people asking if my Cosworths are for sale all the time, I tell them of course at the right price, they then ask how much & get offended when I name my prices. They seem to think that I should sell them for what they want to pay (I.e cheap as chips so they can sell for a profit!) instead of what they are worth to me, as I enjoy owning them & have no need to sell at all.
RWD cossie wil said:
But you are looking from the point of view from the outside, not owning the car or knowing the sellers circumstances.... I suspect most people saying they wouldn't buy/would have sold for that money don't own an appreciating classic, and 62k would be a life changing amount of money.
From the sellers point of view, why is he going to take 13k under the asking price, when he is quite happy owning the car if it does not sell for a figure he feels he could part with it for?
I get people asking if my Cosworths are for sale all the time, I tell them of course at the right price, they then ask how much & get offended when I name my prices. They seem to think that I should sell them for what they want to pay (I.e cheap as chips so they can sell for a profit!) instead of what they are worth to me, as I enjoy owning them & have no need to sell at all.
Agree, people want these cars, they pay good money for a nice one. Simple as that. This car mentioned is the daddy of the road cars.From the sellers point of view, why is he going to take 13k under the asking price, when he is quite happy owning the car if it does not sell for a figure he feels he could part with it for?
I get people asking if my Cosworths are for sale all the time, I tell them of course at the right price, they then ask how much & get offended when I name my prices. They seem to think that I should sell them for what they want to pay (I.e cheap as chips so they can sell for a profit!) instead of what they are worth to me, as I enjoy owning them & have no need to sell at all.
RWD cossie wil said:
But you are looking from the point of view from the outside, not owning the car or knowing the sellers circumstances.... I suspect most people saying they wouldn't buy/would have sold for that money don't own an appreciating classic, and 62k would be a life changing amount of money.
From the sellers point of view, why is he going to take 13k under the asking price, when he is quite happy owning the car if it does not sell for a figure he feels he could part with it for?
I get people asking if my Cosworths are for sale all the time, I tell them of course at the right price, they then ask how much & get offended when I name my prices. They seem to think that I should sell them for what they want to pay (I.e cheap as chips so they can sell for a profit!) instead of what they are worth to me, as I enjoy owning them & have no need to sell at all.
He has dropped it 10k in the past 12 months or so though, which suggests to me that the figure he feels he could part with it for is subject to significant revisions.From the sellers point of view, why is he going to take 13k under the asking price, when he is quite happy owning the car if it does not sell for a figure he feels he could part with it for?
I get people asking if my Cosworths are for sale all the time, I tell them of course at the right price, they then ask how much & get offended when I name my prices. They seem to think that I should sell them for what they want to pay (I.e cheap as chips so they can sell for a profit!) instead of what they are worth to me, as I enjoy owning them & have no need to sell at all.
When I had my sapphire I always had people asking if it was for sale. Never had it with anything else before or since - must be something about Cosworths!
Here's a Sierra that's faster and more exclusive ( as well as more practical)-okay won't be as "investmenty" as RS500- and without the crazy price
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1989-FORD-SIERRA-2-9-4X4...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1989-FORD-SIERRA-2-9-4X4...
tali1 said:
Here's a Sierra that's faster and more exclusive ( as well as more practical)-okay won't be as "investmenty" as RS500- and without the crazy price
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1989-FORD-SIERRA-2-9-4X4...
I think you have missed the point my old china http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1989-FORD-SIERRA-2-9-4X4...
. Nice sleeper though, always wanted a TT converted XR, but I can't concur on it being faster...Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff