RE: Ian Callum talks F-Type coupe

RE: Ian Callum talks F-Type coupe

Author
Discussion

will01

33 posts

160 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
quotequote all
looks absolutely fantastic as a coupe, i really want to see one i the flesh. are they going to make a manual H-box transmission for it though?

KevF

1,994 posts

197 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
I've assumed that this will allow the XK to go up the price ladder, firming margins etc?
True, I think the new XK is due out in 2014? so this will allow a readjustment in the pricing I presume.

I guess that will put the XK into the Maserati GranCabrio territory.

So will the new smaller Maserati mentioned in Autocar as the XFR and M5 rival spawn a cabrio that will rival the F Type?

Looks like the F Type may have opened up a new niche...


whoami

13,151 posts

239 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
whoami said:
DonkeyApple said:
morgrp said:
As beautiful as this is - and it's IS very beautiful - I can't really see how it differs from the xk - it's one of the reasons I went of Aston Martin - all their cars look and perform essentially the same but with variable prices - surely you just compete with yourself? Would this not just kill off the xk like the db9 did to the vanquish?
I've assumed that this will allow the XK to go up the price ladder, firming margins etc?
They can't sell it without massive discounts at the current price though.
In all markets?
Don't know but the UK is still JLR's largest market and they can't sell them here at list (or anywhere near).

DonkeyApple

54,781 posts

168 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
quotequote all
whoami said:
DonkeyApple said:
whoami said:
DonkeyApple said:
morgrp said:
As beautiful as this is - and it's IS very beautiful - I can't really see how it differs from the xk - it's one of the reasons I went of Aston Martin - all their cars look and perform essentially the same but with variable prices - surely you just compete with yourself? Would this not just kill off the xk like the db9 did to the vanquish?
I've assumed that this will allow the XK to go up the price ladder, firming margins etc?
They can't sell it without massive discounts at the current price though.
In all markets?
Don't know but the UK is still JLR's largest market and they can't sell them here at list (or anywhere near).
The UK is bust and many buyers of top marques are no longer able to secure the finance etc.

No multinational is planning any growth via the UK market or even Europe. The key is the BRICs and still the US. If they are discounting in those markets then it would be a concern but their published profits are too high for that to really be the case.

Raitzi

640 posts

211 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
quotequote all
Performance wise F-type has a good shot to be in somewhere between M3 and 991. If they manage that, they could have a winner if the price is right.

They have to put an aggressive tune with minimal understeer etc to lift the chassis performance well above XK. XK was not a sports car, hope F-type is. 550 BHP XKR-S could be beaten by a 300 BHP Porsche made me wonder what was the actual point of the car smile

Or888t

1,686 posts

172 months

Wednesday 3rd October 2012
quotequote all
The Crack Fox said:
Jaguar - PLEASE, for the love of God, give us drivers a manual gearbox !
THIS
I really need this car in a good few years.
Always wanted a 'f type' such a aspirational thing.

falconhoof

160 posts

143 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
turbobungle said:
I've been thinking about the weight and it is a bit disappointing. My 10 year old E46 M3 Coupe weighs in at around 1550kg, it has a steel construction, a big boot, seats for 4 adults, airbags etc. etc. and (I believe) an iron blocked straight six up front. Yet is still weighs more than an all-aluminium 2 seater sportscar with (I assume) an all alloy V6. How does that work??
I can't understand it either, its very heavy for what it is or what its meant to be, which is a proper sports car. At 1600kg min it is more of a cruiser/GT, a very pretty one but I am surprised by the weight, not good, why is it soooooo heavy?

HighwayStar

4,201 posts

143 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
falconhoof said:
turbobungle said:
I've been thinking about the weight and it is a bit disappointing. My 10 year old E46 M3 Coupe weighs in at around 1550kg, it has a steel construction, a big boot, seats for 4 adults, airbags etc. etc. and (I believe) an iron blocked straight six up front. Yet is still weighs more than an all-aluminium 2 seater sportscar with (I assume) an all alloy V6. How does that work??
I can't understand it either, its very heavy for what it is or what its meant to be, which is a proper sports car. At 1600kg min it is more of a cruiser/GT, a very pretty one but I am surprised by the weight, not good, why is it soooooo heavy?
It's not a lot heavier than a PDK equipped Porsche 911 convertible. Funnily posters are demanding a manual stripped out car... Stripping out weight = more money. And people already moaning that it's to expensive!

tali1

5,263 posts

200 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
Or888t said:
The Crack Fox said:
Jaguar - PLEASE, for the love of God, give us drivers a manual gearbox !
THIS
I really need this car in a good few years.
Always wanted a 'f type' such a aspirational thing.
Like 99% of Jags it will be bought by silver haired company directors -the last time they used a manual gearbox would have been about 30 yrs ago.

falconhoof

160 posts

143 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
falconhoof said:
turbobungle said:
I've been thinking about the weight and it is a bit disappointing. My 10 year old E46 M3 Coupe weighs in at around 1550kg, it has a steel construction, a big boot, seats for 4 adults, airbags etc. etc. and (I believe) an iron blocked straight six up front. Yet is still weighs more than an all-aluminium 2 seater sportscar with (I assume) an all alloy V6. How does that work??
I can't understand it either, its very heavy for what it is or what its meant to be, which is a proper sports car. At 1600kg min it is more of a cruiser/GT, a very pretty one but I am surprised by the weight, not good, why is it soooooo heavy?
It's not a lot heavier than a PDK equipped Porsche 911 convertible. Funnily posters are demanding a manual stripped out car... Stripping out weight = more money. And people already moaning that it's to expensive!
Why does stripping weight cost more? A manual option should be offered and the fact it isn't tells me the styling is aimed for younger people but the car will be bought by older buyers who want something that doesn't appear an old mans car, bit of a shame but at the same time it is an awesome looking machine and will be a high quality steer. I am 30 and as much as I love it I would go for something more raw and lightweight, subaru brz would be way more fun and half the price, totally different cars but this new jag is still aimed at the more mature driver which doesn't really bother me It just doesn't appeal to me and it should imo.

DJRC

23,563 posts

235 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
falconhoof said:
HighwayStar said:
falconhoof said:
turbobungle said:
I've been thinking about the weight and it is a bit disappointing. My 10 year old E46 M3 Coupe weighs in at around 1550kg, it has a steel construction, a big boot, seats for 4 adults, airbags etc. etc. and (I believe) an iron blocked straight six up front. Yet is still weighs more than an all-aluminium 2 seater sportscar with (I assume) an all alloy V6. How does that work??
I can't understand it either, its very heavy for what it is or what its meant to be, which is a proper sports car. At 1600kg min it is more of a cruiser/GT, a very pretty one but I am surprised by the weight, not good, why is it soooooo heavy?
It's not a lot heavier than a PDK equipped Porsche 911 convertible. Funnily posters are demanding a manual stripped out car... Stripping out weight = more money. And people already moaning that it's to expensive!
Why does stripping weight cost more? A manual option should be offered and the fact it isn't tells me the styling is aimed for younger people but the car will be bought by older buyers who want something that doesn't appear an old mans car, bit of a shame but at the same time it is an awesome looking machine and will be a high quality steer. I am 30 and as much as I love it I would go for something more raw and lightweight, subaru brz would be way more fun and half the price, totally different cars but this new jag is still aimed at the more mature driver which doesn't really bother me It just doesn't appeal to me and it should imo.
You show your wife the F Type and the BRZ and then tell her you are going to buy the BRZ because its more "fun" and you wont be sleeping in the same bed as she is tonight.

"But Im not married" you say. Congratulations, you just worked out that Jaguar dont give a fk about you with the demographic for this car. Tough tits, welcome to reality. Why should it appeal to you? Its not designed for you, its not priced for you, its not aimed at you.

kambites

67,442 posts

220 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
tali1 said:
Like 99% of Jags it will be bought by silver haired company directors -the last time they used a manual gearbox would have been about 30 yrs ago.
If that is the case, they have failed.

Oz83

683 posts

138 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
DJRC said:
You show your wife the F Type and the BRZ and then tell her you are going to buy the BRZ because its more "fun" and you wont be sleeping in the same bed as she is tonight.

"But Im not married" you say. Congratulations, you just worked out that Jaguar dont give a fk about you with the demographic for this car. Tough tits, welcome to reality. Why should it appeal to you? Its not designed for you, its not priced for you, its not aimed at you.
So who is the target demographic?

If your wife cares about the car you drive then you have bigger issues. Maybe Jag have designed a midlife crisis car.

DonkeyApple

54,781 posts

168 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
Oz83 said:
So who is the target demographic?

If your wife cares about the car you drive then you have bigger issues. Maybe Jag have designed a midlife crisis car.
Why would you be driving the car you've bought for your wife?

cml

715 posts

261 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Oz83 said:
So who is the target demographic?

If your wife cares about the car you drive then you have bigger issues. Maybe Jag have designed a midlife crisis car.
Why would you be driving the car you've bought for your wife?
Just had a mental flash of a 70s 450SL in white driven by a lady in a fur coat and not much else.



jpf

1,311 posts

275 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
Where is the 6 speed manual?

Even if the manual represents 20% of sales, it sends a message regarding Jaguars sporting intentions.

HighwayStar

4,201 posts

143 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
falconhoof said:
Why does stripping weight cost more? A manual option should be offered and the fact it isn't tells me the styling is aimed for younger people but the car will be bought by older buyers who want something that doesn't appear an old mans car, bit of a shame but at the same time it is an awesome looking machine and will be a high quality steer. I am 30 and as much as I love it I would go for something more raw and lightweight, subaru brz would be way more fun and half the price, totally different cars but this new jag is still aimed at the more mature driver which doesn't really bother me It just doesn't appeal to me and it should imo.
That's you... They'll be people of all ages buying this car, some who just like the looks. Not everyone who buys a boxster/cayman/Z4 is an enthusiast. The F-Type may turn out to be right up there with the best handling 2 seaters but if you don't want it don't buy it. No one cares either way. Mercedes don't seem to have any problem selling sporty jobs with autos.

Stripped out more focused cars always cost more than the standard offering. Do you think the just take out the AC, fit lighter seats etc, add more power and out it goes? There's development costs for suspension changes, chassis tuning/re calibration and who knows what...

Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 4th October 20:56

cml

715 posts

261 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
jpf said:
Where is the 6 speed manual?

Even if the manual represents 20% of sales, it sends a message regarding Jaguars sporting intentions.
I doubt it would top 5% in this country if previous form is anything to go by, but you are right - it shows intent and helps get people through the showroom door, even if they do wimp out and get an auto/paddle when it comes to the crunch. Plus we get to fight over them when they hit the trade, long-term 'proper' manuals hold value if given enough time, possibly, probably. Dream Jag currently would be the last batch of manual XJRs (X300 shape with the six if I recall correctly).

MycroftWard

5,983 posts

212 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
cml said:
Dream Jag currently would be the last batch of manual XJRs (X300 shape with the six if I recall correctly).
They are fantastic motors, classics for sure. Love manual Jag's (I've a manual XJ40 3.6, great car).

DonkeyApple

54,781 posts

168 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
falconhoof said:
Why does stripping weight cost more? A manual option should be offered and the fact it isn't tells me the styling is aimed for younger people but the car will be bought by older buyers who want something that doesn't appear an old mans car, bit of a shame but at the same time it is an awesome looking machine and will be a high quality steer. I am 30 and as much as I love it I would go for something more raw and lightweight, subaru brz would be way more fun and half the price, totally different cars but this new jag is still aimed at the more mature driver which doesn't really bother me It just doesn't appeal to me and it should imo.
That's you... They'll be people of all ages buying this car, some who just like the looks. Not everyone who buys a boxster/cayman/Z4 is an enthusiast. The F-Type may turn out to be right up there with the best handling 2 seaters but if you don't want it don't buy it. No one cares either way. Mercedes don't seem to have any problem selling sporty jobs with autos.

Stripped out more focused cars always cost more than the standard offering. Do you think the just take out the AC, fit lighter seats etc, add more power and out it goes? There's development costs for suspension changes, chassis tuning/re calibration and who knows what...

Edited by HighwayStar on Thursday 4th October 20:56
TVR learned in the mide/late 90s as customers deserted in droves to buy the new mass produced roadsters such as the Boxster, SLK etc that the simple reality is that no one really wants a 'real' sports car. People want something that looks like a sports car and has the marketing image of a sports car but in reality is no less practical or luxurious as a good saloon.

For people who don't yet get this, the next time you go for a drive just count the number of 'real' sportscars you see. RS911s, Caterhams etc and compare that number to the number of conventional roadsters you see.

Jaguar don't want to build something that very clearly no commercially viable group want.