Gas-guzzling sportscars to receive purchase tax up to £23K
Discussion
Anyone who has a brain which is able to think for itself, knows that the CO2 argument is a load of BS engineered for the carrying out of certain agendas and that tax on fuel is the ultimate / most efficient "pollution / usage" tax, but the country is in the crap financially and any BS will be dreamt up in order to pay for it. After all, it all has to be paid for: the huge number of illegals in the country who still get handouts, the benefits bill generally, the full to bursting prisons, the EU, much of the public sector and its pensions as well, the several hundred of our own MPs, the top heavy NHS, state pensions which were never funded, dodgy PFI deals, there's bound to be more
I live in Malta and this has been like this for ages!! Not exactly the same algorithm and criteria.. though its also based on C02 emissions here. It bloody insane. I had gotten a honda integra DC5 which had (if i remember correctly) around 220co2 emissions. I had paid just over 5K (euro) to register the car... I then had to pay 850euros license anually which goes up to 1,200euros in the 15year (from the cars manufacturing date). Was insane and was forced to sell it.
I even know people that would have bought a Ferrari 430 for 85K or something like that and would have to pay 130K euro to register it and pay an annual license of just under 2K euro (exc insurance) its insane. I once checked for a bugatti veyron, the registration cost is just over 1.2m euros.. lol.. its insane..
So im not surprised they the UK is doing the same thing. It really unfair, but on the bright side, you guys have tracks and if u still decide to pay the registration and so on, at least u also got good roads. We have crappy roads and our cars are always in the garage to stay polishing and looking at it!!
I even know people that would have bought a Ferrari 430 for 85K or something like that and would have to pay 130K euro to register it and pay an annual license of just under 2K euro (exc insurance) its insane. I once checked for a bugatti veyron, the registration cost is just over 1.2m euros.. lol.. its insane..
So im not surprised they the UK is doing the same thing. It really unfair, but on the bright side, you guys have tracks and if u still decide to pay the registration and so on, at least u also got good roads. We have crappy roads and our cars are always in the garage to stay polishing and looking at it!!
Zajda said:
All I can say is be aware what your voted politicians do and perhaps next time, vote more wisely. Know it isn't easy, but you must try, same as we must try in my country. UKIP anyone?
Thats a bit naive. Do you honestly think a group of elected politicians will do what they say they will?Also if you live a in particularly strongly biased area (ex coal mining for example) voting for anyone if a waste of time as the incumbents always have gotten in on the local council votes. The national ones aren't that much better being too vague in their policies and the simple root fact is you're voting for a representative NOT for the policies. You get that representative even if they do a complete U-turn on policies the next day. Basically the choice is so limited I usually vote for the independant MPs if there is one running in the vague hope they'll do as they say not as their party dictates.
otolith said:
If we're talking fairness, I'd like to see all energy use taxed at the same rate per kg of CO2 (since that's what they claim it's all about). That's domestic power, industrial power and power for public transport. If buses and trains are so much more carbon efficient, transparent carbon pricing won't hurt them and they don't need or deserve a fuel duty rebate. Likewise, I don't see that electricity to power a tv is less of a luxury than petrol to drive to work, so why is one massively taxed per kg of CO2 and the other barely at all?
Is that the flapping of porcine wings I hear?
I suspect that if the Co2 use of everything else was taxed at the same rate as cars, life would get a hell of a lot more expensive, which just goes to show what a cash-cow the motorist has become.Is that the flapping of porcine wings I hear?
Apart from train travel, that is, which I estimated costs me about the same per mile as fuelling a Jensen Interceptor.
Whilst I don't trust the politicians to do what they say, if I have understood the principle of the new tax correctly then it potentially isn't all that bad.
My understanding form the PH article is that there will be an initial tax on new cars based on their emissions this will be then followed by a much lower road tax for the rest of the vehicles life. This just transfers the burden of payment to the person buying the new car. If someone can afford a new vehicle then why shouldn't they shoulder more of the tax which is these days billed as an environmental tax. After all the environmental impact of building a new car is much worse for the planet than running an older less fuel efficient model.
If this encouraged people to treat cars less like disposable items and made them think twice about buying new then it would overall have a positive effect (although maybe not for the economy depending on how much UK car manufacture relies on UK sales). This may also help extend the life of some of those nice big engined barges that we love so much on PH, think how many post 06 cars will end up being scrapped because no one wants to pay £500 a year road tax on a car whose value will drop to sub £1000.
If I have mis-interpreted the plan and this is a additional tax on top of the normal road tax rates then it is just a stupid money grabbing exercise.
My understanding form the PH article is that there will be an initial tax on new cars based on their emissions this will be then followed by a much lower road tax for the rest of the vehicles life. This just transfers the burden of payment to the person buying the new car. If someone can afford a new vehicle then why shouldn't they shoulder more of the tax which is these days billed as an environmental tax. After all the environmental impact of building a new car is much worse for the planet than running an older less fuel efficient model.
If this encouraged people to treat cars less like disposable items and made them think twice about buying new then it would overall have a positive effect (although maybe not for the economy depending on how much UK car manufacture relies on UK sales). This may also help extend the life of some of those nice big engined barges that we love so much on PH, think how many post 06 cars will end up being scrapped because no one wants to pay £500 a year road tax on a car whose value will drop to sub £1000.
If I have mis-interpreted the plan and this is a additional tax on top of the normal road tax rates then it is just a stupid money grabbing exercise.
All that jazz said:
What is to stop you from buying a UK registered car, getting the boat back home and running it on UK plates? Surely the boat trip to the UK and back for its yearly MoT (assuming over 3 yrs old) would still work out far cheaper than buying one over there and taxing it there?
Over here it's illegal to drive a car on foreign plates if you're a resident - it's seen as tax evasion. The first time they catch you, you might just get away with stern words and a leaflet urging you to register the car in The Netherlands and stop using it before you do so. However, they may also invoice you right away for the registration tax due (anywhere between a few hundred and a hundred thousand euro depending on what car and date of first registration) plus a very hefty fine.And yes, that means that if I had a Belgian, German or UK girlfriend I wouldn't be allowed to drive her car here, even if she was sat next to me...
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 5th October 10:15
Twincam16 said:
otolith said:
If we're talking fairness, I'd like to see all energy use taxed at the same rate per kg of CO2 (since that's what they claim it's all about). That's domestic power, industrial power and power for public transport. If buses and trains are so much more carbon efficient, transparent carbon pricing won't hurt them and they don't need or deserve a fuel duty rebate. Likewise, I don't see that electricity to power a tv is less of a luxury than petrol to drive to work, so why is one massively taxed per kg of CO2 and the other barely at all?
Is that the flapping of porcine wings I hear?
I suspect that if the Co2 use of everything else was taxed at the same rate as cars, life would get a hell of a lot more expensive, which just goes to show what a cash-cow the motorist has become.Is that the flapping of porcine wings I hear?
Apart from train travel, that is, which I estimated costs me about the same per mile as fuelling a Jensen Interceptor.
For all those saying VED should be scrapped and put on cars.
1. How would MOT and insurance be verified? We'd still need a licencing agency to manage this, so the DVLA would remain.
2. How will the government maintain fuel duty revenues as people run increasingly efficient cars? If they increase the duty on fuel to match this, then 2 things will happen: first they'll get voted out of power, and secondly the price of fuel for our V6/8/10/12s will become so exhorbitant that you'd wish we still had £475-a-year VED.
1. How would MOT and insurance be verified? We'd still need a licencing agency to manage this, so the DVLA would remain.
2. How will the government maintain fuel duty revenues as people run increasingly efficient cars? If they increase the duty on fuel to match this, then 2 things will happen: first they'll get voted out of power, and secondly the price of fuel for our V6/8/10/12s will become so exhorbitant that you'd wish we still had £475-a-year VED.
oyster said:
For all those saying VED should be scrapped and put on cars.
1. How would MOT and insurance be verified? We'd still need a licencing agency to manage this, so the DVLA would remain.
2. How will the government maintain fuel duty revenues as people run increasingly efficient cars? If they increase the duty on fuel to match this, then 2 things will happen: first they'll get voted out of power, and secondly the price of fuel for our V6/8/10/12s will become so exhorbitant that you'd wish we still had £475-a-year VED.
RE 2 - the point is that you only use a small amount on a weekend car or even just an occasional car. cars that run around doing 30+K a year will be taking more the cost as they should be.1. How would MOT and insurance be verified? We'd still need a licencing agency to manage this, so the DVLA would remain.
2. How will the government maintain fuel duty revenues as people run increasingly efficient cars? If they increase the duty on fuel to match this, then 2 things will happen: first they'll get voted out of power, and secondly the price of fuel for our V6/8/10/12s will become so exhorbitant that you'd wish we still had £475-a-year VED.
The DVLA still verifies the MOT and the police as they do now. there would need to be some cahnges to the law though to keep it all correct but nothing insurmountable. The only place I can see it being a problem is those trade policies with 'any car' insurance but I guess as long as they don't leave it parked up on the road without MOT (which you can't do without tax now, which you can't get without a valid MOT) whats the problem?
I am interested in all the posts that show how expensive it is to buy and run a car in other EU countries. It doesn't seem so long ago when we in the UK were being ripped off and cars were so much cheaper on the continent.
As to Europe, it does not appear to put people off but stories of the cost of the car again just to register it are amazing and really makes me think what a prick I was worrying about my VED going from £200 to £400 (Which didn't happen in the end)
As to Europe, it does not appear to put people off but stories of the cost of the car again just to register it are amazing and really makes me think what a prick I was worrying about my VED going from £200 to £400 (Which didn't happen in the end)
croyde said:
I am interested in all the posts that show how expensive it is to buy and run a car in other EU countries. It doesn't seem so long ago when we in the UK were being ripped off and cars were so much cheaper on the continent.
The two are closely connected. Because our registration taxes were/are so high, the base price that the car manufacturer invoiced to dealers as well as dealer margins tended to be lower than in surrounding countries to partly compensate and still be able to sell new cars here (as our incomes are not any higher than those of surrounding countries).As UK residents who register their new car in the UK obviously don't have to pay Dutch registration taxes, they went to Dutch dealers in droves to buy cheap new UK-spec cars from the moment the EU made clear to vehicle manufacturers that they couldn't decline delivering those cars to dealers in NL as they used to do before (some hefty fines were slapped at manufacturers who were found acting in disaccordance with the free EU internal market rules).
With car buying tourism to countries with high taxes and low base prices running rampant, car manufacturers were left no option other than to harmonise base prices between EU countries, so our cars basically got a bit more expensive before taxes and UK ones a bit cheaper.
Twincam16 said:
I suspect that if the Co2 use of everything else was taxed at the same rate as cars, life would get a hell of a lot more expensive, which just goes to show what a cash-cow the motorist has become.
Apart from train travel, that is, which I estimated costs me about the same per mile as fuelling a Jensen Interceptor.
Obviously to be revenue neutral the rate would have to be a lot lower than the one we currently charge for car use. I just object to the value judgement which says that one CO2 emitting activity should be discouraged more than another, the disparities in taxation are enormous.Apart from train travel, that is, which I estimated costs me about the same per mile as fuelling a Jensen Interceptor.
oyster said:
For all those saying VED should be scrapped and put on cars.
1. How would MOT and insurance be verified? We'd still need a licencing agency to manage this, so the DVLA would remain.
How do you mean, "verified"? The police can check the insurance and MOT status of any car at any point, and any car which has not been notified as not in use automatically generates penalties if it is not insured. We would still need an agency to run these systems and to maintain the registration system, but we would lose the costs of maintaining the tax disc system and associated payment infrastructure.1. How would MOT and insurance be verified? We'd still need a licencing agency to manage this, so the DVLA would remain.
renrut said:
When did they get cheaper in the UK? I was in the honda dealer the other day and they had a new jazz up at £18K It wasn't even the top spec one. The price of an equivalent new civic to our 5yr old one is £28K vs the £16K ours was when new.
They never got cheaper, just less expensive than in Europe.Plus all this speccing up costs a bomb. A new BMW motorcycle, the R1200GS is just over £10k in the showroom but once you have added the 'essential' extras, ie all the stuff that should be standard in the 21st century like ABS, heated grips, adjustable suspension etc, the on the road price is nearer to £14k.
£4k more, that's the price of a decent secondhand Jap sports bike.
Hardly anyone buys the base model as they always prove very difficult to sell on.
Edited by croyde on Friday 5th October 11:37
otolith said:
Twincam16 said:
I suspect that if the Co2 use of everything else was taxed at the same rate as cars, life would get a hell of a lot more expensive, which just goes to show what a cash-cow the motorist has become.
Apart from train travel, that is, which I estimated costs me about the same per mile as fuelling a Jensen Interceptor.
Obviously to be revenue neutral the rate would have to be a lot lower than the one we currently charge for car use. I just object to the value judgement which says that one CO2 emitting activity should be discouraged more than another, the disparities in taxation are enormous.Apart from train travel, that is, which I estimated costs me about the same per mile as fuelling a Jensen Interceptor.
Personally I'd be all for high-speed trains replacing internal flights. Works in France. The Eurotunnel means we could connect most of Europe with high-speed rail, which is cheaper and much less hassle (not to mention more comfortable and civilised) than flying.
The jury may be out on global warming, but there's no avoiding the air quality issue. I live in the countryside where the only passing planes either have propellors, or have weapons on them and are travelling at Mach 1. However, when I go to visit friends and family in an area under the flightpath of Manchester Airport, I sometimes find it hard to breathe. One of my cousins first realised she was asthmatic on a visit to my parents' house, and her doctor put the sudden attack down to avgas residue in the air.
All that jazz said:
What is to stop you from buying a UK registered car, getting the boat back home and running it on UK plates? Surely the boat trip to the UK and back for its yearly MoT (assuming over 3 yrs old) would still work out far cheaper than buying one over there and taxing it there?
Yes, as Catscan said, you don't have long to declare it. Then you have to go and show it to some official, who generally have no interest in cars, for them to decide how much you owe them. When I bought my 1991 E30 in N. Ireland earlier in the year, I had no idea how much I was going to have to pay to get RoI plates on it beforehandCustoms & Excise also patrol it, and have been known to set up checkpoints outside the big employers in the country, eg Intel. Anyone with a foreign reg plate gets pulled in and the car potentially seized, especially if it's a GB or NI one
The other thing is you're not even allowed bring a car in and store it or use it as a track-dayer. The car can still be confiscated!
It all comes about from 1992 and the abolishment of impport duty in Europe, so the government were pretty quick in bringing this "Vehicle Registration Tax" in "instead". Even the EU have disagreed with it, but the Irish government only listen to the bits they want to hear
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