RE: PH poll: best hot hatch

[jbforce10]

TEKNOPUG said:

So an Evo II is a dull, cheap, shopping runabout that has had an engine and a few other mechanicals pinched from bigger cars in the range and sold cheaply to allow the masses some practical and affordable motoring thrills?

No. It isn't is it, not in the slightest. Therefore it isn't a "hot hatch" and shouldn't be on this list (I did voice my concerns when it was being originally created).

The Evo II is an evolution of the original Delta. It was by all means based on a dull, cheap, shopping runabout.

[Bezza1969]

I agree, the Integrale, is not a proper "hot hatch", ok its hot and its got a hatch, but its a 4 x 4 super car based on a hatchback!!

Call me old fashioned but a proper hot hatch is a FWD hatchback which is lifted off a cooking hatch and is simply hotted up with a bigger engine, bigger wheels and firmer suspension...

Glad to see Focus RS Mk1 featuring so high, but again, Clio v6, what is that doing on here? And where is the 306 GTI-6/Rallye?

Glad my car is at number 2 however!!!

[fieldmau5]

Sorry, hold on a second, why is there absolutely no mention of the Leon Cupra R? Inarguably one of the top 5 hot hatches of the last 10 years. That's ridiculous.

[simonigrale]

simonigrale said:

Lancia Delta Integrale Evoluzione: Tick

Renault Clio 16v (not quite a Williams): Sort of Tick

Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup: Tick

I can agree with the 'integrale' not only was the car incredible to drive, when modified it was very fast but the main thing was its Italian soul. It gave an exotic supercar feel to a hot hatch and the LHD only added to the drama.

I remember to do an overtake I used to lean over to the right hand side of the car to see if there was anything coming the other way with my right foot planted into the carpet. Hopefully there would be nothing coming by which time the 'grale' would be on boost and ready to make short work of one or three cars in front !!!

Oh yeah, I had a Mk1 Focus RS as well - Forgot about that, not that the car was bad at all. Is was really really good !!!

[nick-elise]

Interesting, although never in a million years would I rate an EP3 Civic Type over a Clio 200!

[LewisR]

How has anyone defined "best"? Fastest? Cheapest? Most reliable? Best handling? Best comfort; the list goes on. Should it be "Favourite hot hatch" then? In which case, mine would probably be a 2012 Jaguar XKR. ;-)

[Ferg]

I love that thread. Someone starts it with clear rules and busybodies chip in with trying to change the rules. Last time I looked you can start your own thread on here.

PS 6R4, clearly. Until you've driven one on the road you wouldn't understand.

[MrTappets]

I nice list and I wasn't expecting no 1. I agree about the fwd comments - Where do you draw the line at hot hatch? (I think technically the V12 Vantage and Ferrari F12 are hatchbacks)

[stuartmmcfc]

I've been lucky enough to own 3 of the top 11, including the winner, and I have to say "so what" about the poll.
They were all fun and memorable to drive and i expect the rest are to.

[effkay]

Alfa 145QV - worst ever? Or is that 50th best?

Oh well, I love mine.

Off to cry on the 145 forum

[TEKNOPUG]

jbforce10 said:

The Evo II is an evolution of the original Delta. It was by all means based on a dull, cheap, shopping runabout.

The Evo II is an evolution of the original Integrale, which is 4WD rally car, loosely based on the FWD Hf Turbo.

The Hf Turbo could be considered a Hot Hatch, the Integrale not.
Note that the Hf Turbo does not appear on the list, neither does the 1.6 GT.

[mattlad]

Panthro said:

AMC Pacer...WTF. That doesnt even belong in the top 100.

Doesn't even belong in the top 1000!

[Checkmate]

Grovsie26 said:

Clio V6? LOL good one. A 182 clio or a EP3 is a better hot hatch by miles. Hell the V6 is barely a hot hatch, it's not practical in the slighest, and it handles like a pig and it's heavy.

Just no. Try spending some time with one before spouting such nonsense.

[300bhp/ton]

Skater12 said:

Twincam16 said:

Contigo said:

And the winner is!!!! A LHD unreliable piece of crap that looks the business but I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

You, sir, have no right to call yourself a petrolhead.

Twincam16, have you ever owned a Lancia Delta of ANY description?
I had an HF turbo, as did a friend, and 2 others had Integrale's.
Non of us would have one ever again, not because they weren't fun or because they looked dodgy, but because they were a mechanical nightmare!
The cost to keep one of these on the road is so far out of reach of the Hot-Hatch target market that surely that alone negates the arguement.
Affordable and practical performance are the key points that make a car Hot-Hatch.

Not denying or taking away anything you've said, but there another angle.

Practical - as in getting and out. Number of doors, number of seats and size of boot.

Affordable - well didn't these offer Ferrari like performance for a fraction of the cost? I'd say bang per buck wise that makes them affordable and that fact that Lancia built tens of thousands of Integrale's.

[p4cks]

That's a pretty comprehensive list and I do agree with it.

I've got two Clio Williams' so I consider myself a very lucky boy indeed (although I am going to be selling one soon) as these cars are as fantastic a drive as people say they are. Much better than the 205 GTI 1.6 I used to own and even better than the 172 Cup I used to have too.

[300bhp/ton]

TEKNOPUG said:

jbforce10 said:

The Integrale Evo II wasn't a homologation car (previous models were) so just assume that all voters for the Delta meant that particular verion. Happy?

So an Evo II is a dull, cheap, shopping runabout that has had an engine and a few other mechanicals pinched from bigger cars in the range and sold cheaply to allow the masses some practical and affordable motoring thrills?

No. It isn't is it, not in the slightest. Therefore it isn't a "hot hatch" and shouldn't be on this list (I did voice my concerns when it was being originally created).

Ok so how is a Focus RS any different? Or is that not a batch either?

And yes the Evo II is indeed the same shell as a 1.3 Delta and uses an intercooled version of the Delta HF Turbo's engine. Seriously what more do you need?

As for price well it was cheaper than any supercar offering similar performance, so relatively speaking it was a bargain. And that's probably part of the reason Lancia managed to build and sell 44,000 of them. Seriously what percentage of those do you think where actual rally cars? 0.9% maybe.

[irish boy]

Fiat 500/punto abarth? Wife has one and must say it's great fun.

Mk2 golf for me, had space and spare money last year so there's a 2 owner 60k big bumper stuck in the corner of my garage....lovely thing.

[gl20]

How times change. When both the 205 and 309 GTIs were on sale I recall Autocar rating the 309 as being the better drivers car. Still, looks make the 205 more memorable (although I probably had a semi over the 309's twin drivers lights at the time).

Even though the 205 1.9 was my first car I will be big and concede the Integrale is a worthy winner.

[MrFrodo]

effkay said:

Alfa 145QV - worst ever? Or is that 50th best?

Oh well, I love mine.

Off to cry on the 145 forum

Don't worry, you're not the only one. I think they're cracking cars too. Might even be tempted by a 146 Ti. :-)

[M666 EVO]

anything fast said:

M666 EVO said:

anything fast said:

Hot hatch??

very odd list of cars..

the no1 is right Mk1 GTi (which I haved owned!)

But the rest? Escort Coworth, Lancia Integrale, Pulsar GTiR etc etc, they are all rally slags and should not be put on the same list.

My idea of a hot hatch is FWD and modest power. Not 4WD and huge turbos!

I wonder maybe a thread of the top rally slag list?

Audi Quattro
Lancia Integrale
Escort Cosworth
Subaru Impreza
Mitsi Evo
Celica GT4
Subaru Legacy
and many more

And the Delta would come first in that list too, what's your point?

A very good list and results

The End

my point being many people inclduding me dont class cars like integrales and cosworths as hot hatchbacks.

its like doing a supercar list littered with things like BMW M5's, Audi RS6's etc..

I think most people who own an Integrale or an Escort Cosworth would be offended if they were told they were driving a hot hatchback.

I didn't actually see the criteria for the list but I would assume as both the Intergrale and Cosworths have hatchbacks (except the Sapphire Coz), they are hatchbacks? And both quite hot. You would have to maybe have a further rule of sub 175bhp maybe? Not sure...

Regardless of whether they are rally cars or touring cars, they fit the criteria perfectly. It seems they do have an advantage due to silly power and remarkable chassis etc etc but then so what?

I would not be offended if someone said my Delta is a hot hatch. Because it is. Same as I can't get the ar%e if someone says my Jag is an old mans car. It is...