RE: PH poll: best hot hatch
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
Ok so how is a Focus RS any different? Or is that not a batch either?
And yes the Evo II is indeed the same shell as a 1.3 Delta and uses an intercooled version of the Delta HF Turbo's engine. Seriously what more do you need?
As for price well it was cheaper than any supercar offering similar performance, so relatively speaking it was a bargain. And that's probably part of the reason Lancia managed to build and sell 44,000 of them. Seriously what percentage of those do you think where actual rally cars? 0.9% maybe.
The Delta HF Turbo was a 1.6 8v FWD - a "hot hatch". The EVO was a 2.0 16v 4WD rally-bred car, that cost 4 times the price of a base Delta and twice the price of it's closest rivals in the list. It sold 44,000 units worldwide? The 205 sold 66,000 units just in the UK! It isn't a "hot hatch" - it maybe a hatchback that is fast but it fails on too many criteria to be considered a "hot hatch". Anyone with a passing interest in cars should be able to appreciate this. I'd suggest also that a Focus RS isn't either. A Clio V6 definitely isn't.And yes the Evo II is indeed the same shell as a 1.3 Delta and uses an intercooled version of the Delta HF Turbo's engine. Seriously what more do you need?
As for price well it was cheaper than any supercar offering similar performance, so relatively speaking it was a bargain. And that's probably part of the reason Lancia managed to build and sell 44,000 of them. Seriously what percentage of those do you think where actual rally cars? 0.9% maybe.
Dont understand why so many have a problem with this list, it was voted for by ph'ers so those saying x isnt a hot hatch y shouldn't have been in the list, others thought otherwise and quite clearly the delta was considered by many as a hot hatch. A good list and a good read. Also seems to show when it comes to hot hatches the french know what they're doin.
M666 EVO said:
I didn't actually see the criteria for the list but I would assume as both the Intergrale and Cosworths have hatchbacks (except the Sapphire Coz), they are hatchbacks? And both quite hot. You would have to maybe have a further rule of sub 175bhp maybe? Not sure...
Regardless of whether they are rally cars or touring cars, they fit the criteria perfectly. It seems they do have an advantage due to silly power and remarkable chassis etc etc but then so what?
In the case, the Ferrari FF is the best hot hatch, as it fits the criteria perfectly.Regardless of whether they are rally cars or touring cars, they fit the criteria perfectly. It seems they do have an advantage due to silly power and remarkable chassis etc etc but then so what?
Does that mean that mine has gone up in value?? 
Seriously though, talk about fragile! Constant care and attention needed to keep it in tip top condition. If it was a working dog it would have been put down.....
Off round Richmond Park at 20mph....
ETA.......for the record I consider it a rally car and not a hot hatch. My 1.9 gti of 1997 was head and shoulders above it in all but levels of grips and outright performance!
Seriously though, talk about fragile! Constant care and attention needed to keep it in tip top condition. If it was a working dog it would have been put down.....
Off round Richmond Park at 20mph....
ETA.......for the record I consider it a rally car and not a hot hatch. My 1.9 gti of 1997 was head and shoulders above it in all but levels of grips and outright performance!
Edited by OdramaSwimLaden on Wednesday 3rd October 18:15
TEKNOPUG said:
jbforce10 said:
The Evo II is an evolution of the original Delta. It was by all means based on a dull, cheap, shopping runabout.
The Evo II is an evolution of the original Integrale, which is 4WD rally car, loosely based on the FWD Hf Turbo.The Hf Turbo could be considered a Hot Hatch, the Integrale not.
Note that the Hf Turbo does not appear on the list, neither does the 1.6 GT.
We are talking era's here but many on this forum will recognise the era I am talking about...
I don't recognise a lot of cars being classed as a hot hatch on the list.. The era of the hot hatch started with the Golf Gti, there were earlier hatchbacks, but they weren,t HOT !
Golf Gti was brilliant , well made, fast but a touch portly compared to some of the imposters that came along later..I think people also forget how expensive they were in their day which created a 2 tiered clique of hatch drivers.
Your wealthier middle class lot had the GTi Golf whereas the majority of the rest of the unwashed went generally for,, XR2, XR3, 1.6 then later 1.9 GTi, The little 1.4 R5 GT Turbo was very very quick in its day , citroen brought out a budget AX Gt, so good that the hatch fell off if someone broke the rear window, Masda had the hot 323 hatch which may have been a homoligation car, Then Fiat had the Uno Turbo and later the Arbarth 130tc. Then Lancia Brought out the Delta...
Now these were the true first generation hot hatches..Before they became bloated...before the manufacturers sanitised them..the Mk1 XR2 was my working class choice..The Mk 2 was horrible in comparison because ford decided to run un-equal length driveshafts which created a horrible torque steerer and spoiled the little Kent engined marvel.
A lot on here won't actually realise the giant killing across country performance these cars had...Point for point their was nothing between them all..You paid your money and bought your favourite brand...then the yuppies bought the GTi's
N.
I don't recognise a lot of cars being classed as a hot hatch on the list.. The era of the hot hatch started with the Golf Gti, there were earlier hatchbacks, but they weren,t HOT !
Golf Gti was brilliant , well made, fast but a touch portly compared to some of the imposters that came along later..I think people also forget how expensive they were in their day which created a 2 tiered clique of hatch drivers.
Your wealthier middle class lot had the GTi Golf whereas the majority of the rest of the unwashed went generally for,, XR2, XR3, 1.6 then later 1.9 GTi, The little 1.4 R5 GT Turbo was very very quick in its day , citroen brought out a budget AX Gt, so good that the hatch fell off if someone broke the rear window, Masda had the hot 323 hatch which may have been a homoligation car, Then Fiat had the Uno Turbo and later the Arbarth 130tc. Then Lancia Brought out the Delta...
Now these were the true first generation hot hatches..Before they became bloated...before the manufacturers sanitised them..the Mk1 XR2 was my working class choice..The Mk 2 was horrible in comparison because ford decided to run un-equal length driveshafts which created a horrible torque steerer and spoiled the little Kent engined marvel.
A lot on here won't actually realise the giant killing across country performance these cars had...Point for point their was nothing between them all..You paid your money and bought your favourite brand...then the yuppies bought the GTi's
N.
Edited by heightswitch on Wednesday 3rd October 18:32
Edited by heightswitch on Wednesday 3rd October 18:33
Edited by heightswitch on Wednesday 3rd October 18:34
M666 EVO said:
anything fast said:
M666 EVO said:
anything fast said:
Hot hatch??
very odd list of cars..
the no1 is right Mk1 GTi (which I haved owned!)
But the rest? Escort Coworth, Lancia Integrale, Pulsar GTiR etc etc, they are all rally slags and should not be put on the same list.
My idea of a hot hatch is FWD and modest power. Not 4WD and huge turbos!
I wonder maybe a thread of the top rally slag list?
Audi Quattro
Lancia Integrale
Escort Cosworth
Subaru Impreza
Mitsi Evo
Celica GT4
Subaru Legacy
and many more
And the Delta would come first in that list too, what's your point?very odd list of cars..
the no1 is right Mk1 GTi (which I haved owned!)
But the rest? Escort Coworth, Lancia Integrale, Pulsar GTiR etc etc, they are all rally slags and should not be put on the same list.
My idea of a hot hatch is FWD and modest power. Not 4WD and huge turbos!
I wonder maybe a thread of the top rally slag list?
Audi Quattro
Lancia Integrale
Escort Cosworth
Subaru Impreza
Mitsi Evo
Celica GT4
Subaru Legacy
and many more
A very good list and results
The End
its like doing a supercar list littered with things like BMW M5's, Audi RS6's etc..
I think most people who own an Integrale or an Escort Cosworth would be offended if they were told they were driving a hot hatchback.
Regardless of whether they are rally cars or touring cars, they fit the criteria perfectly. It seems they do have an advantage due to silly power and remarkable chassis etc etc but then so what?
I would not be offended if someone said my Delta is a hot hatch. Because it is. Same as I can't get the ar%e if someone says my Jag is an old mans car. It is...
TEKNOPUG said:
The 'grales, Cosworths and the like shouldn't be included in this list - they aren't hot hatches, they're homologated rally cars with associated high purchase and running costs.
Can't argue with the rest of the list though.
Agreed.ive always regared a true hot hatch as something resonably obatainable by most.i guess it wasnt part of the criteria people considered when they voted.Can't argue with the rest of the list though.
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