RE: PH poll: best hot hatch

[DrTre]

Twincam16 said:

Contigo said:

And the winner is!!!! A LHD unreliable piece of crap that looks the business but I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

You, sir, have no right to call yourself a petrolhead.

I totally appreciate that it's LHD, and they're not the most reliable things, and that Contigo wouldn't want one...but "piece of crap"?! Eh?

ETA although I do agree with the vague feeling it's perhaps not a hot hatch in the generally accepted meaning. I was surprised when Evo classed it as such in their tables at the back. There again, it doesn't fit neatly into any category, nor do any of the rally reps really.

Edited by DrTre on Wednesday 3rd October 16:17

[deltaevo16]

Twincam16 said:

Contigo said:

And the winner is!!!! A LHD unreliable piece of crap that looks the business but I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

You, sir, have no right to call yourself a petrolhead.

Mostly written by folk that have never owned one Have had mine for 5 years and its never unreliable. Know people that used them as a daily driver clocking up in excess of 60k miles and never missed a beat. A deserved winner.

[RacerMike]

Some great cars on the list, but are the Clio V6, 5 Turbo, Delta Integrale and Escort Cosworth really hot hatches? My understanding of the term was a front engined FWD 'affordable' tweaked version of a mainstream hatch! None of those were really affordable at the time.

If we're being broad with the term, why not include the Sierra RS500 Cosworth and a Ferrari FF. Strictly speaking, they still have a hatch....

[Skater12]

Twincam16 said:

Contigo said:

And the winner is!!!! A LHD unreliable piece of crap that looks the business but I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

You, sir, have no right to call yourself a petrolhead.

Twincam16, have you ever owned a Lancia Delta of ANY description?
I had an HF turbo, as did a friend, and 2 others had Integrale's.
Non of us would have one ever again, not because they weren't fun or because they looked dodgy, but because they were a mechanical nightmare!
The cost to keep one of these on the road is so far out of reach of the Hot-Hatch target market that surely that alone negates the arguement.
Affordable and practical performance are the key points that make a car Hot-Hatch.

[mboon]

People say Cosworths are unreliable... Had two and never had one issue with them. I can imagine the Delta is the same. They was built for rallying so a few road miles is not going to do much. You find bad modifications is what kills them

[LuS1fer]

mboon said:

Really?

Owned a low mile low owner one, loved every minutes of it. A mate had one too which was great too. Took any abuse you threw at it, handled really well and sounded great.

How much more did the Golfs cost over a simular Ford?

I see you drive a Fiesta ST... I owned a Zetec S along side my XR2 and a part from the Zetec S having more electrics, it was no better to drive, if anything it was worse. Not saying the Zetec S is a bad car, its a very good car, but never moved on from the XR2. I have mates with Fiesta ST's and if I am honest, its pretty poor im comparison. a MK2 Gti Golf/RS Turbo etc would all stick to the tail of yours and stay there while being more fun and attached to the driving experience.

In general, any following car can stick to the tail of a car in front, often with significantly less power and less handling so it's not a great yardstick. Visibility is often the limiting factor.

The XR2 had the often described as "coarse" CVH which killed it's appeal for me (I tried one in an XR3i which the owner replaced with a Jetta GTI 16v). The Golf at least had a sublime engine (I had the Scirocco Mk II GTI) but my GT Turbo could be driven 10/10ths and my memory (from 1992) actually concludes it would be a lot quicker than my ST - but it was chipped to an alleged 150hp and it was a whole lot lighter and certainly less bulky and lower and of course the GT Turbo had bespoke rear suspension compared to normal 5s.

My then employer had an XR2 which he got a discount on from a customer (we sold motorbikes) and it rpalced a Scirocco Mk 1 GLi and he often lamented that change after he gave it to his daughter and she declined to give it back.

But you're right, millions of owners bough them and were perfectly happy with them...and sales are what count.

[Evo]

Never had any reason to doubt it wouldn't be the Integrale lol

Another " Wish I'd never sold mine"

[simonigrale]

Lancia Delta Integrale Evoluzione: Tick

Renault Clio 16v (not quite a Williams): Sort of Tick

Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup: Tick

I can agree with the 'integrale' not only was the car incredible to drive, when modified it was very fast but the main thing was its Italian soul. It gave an exotic supercar feel to a hot hatch and the LHD only added to the drama.

I remember to do an overtake I used to lean over to the right hand side of the car to see if there was anything coming the other way with my right foot planted into the carpet. Hopefully there would be nothing coming by which time the 'grale' would be on boost and ready to make short work of one or three cars in front !!!

[Fury RS]

Contigo said:

And the winner is!!!! A LHD unreliable piece of crap that looks the business but I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

For me the winner is the MK1 Gti, it will always be the original hot hatch and still to this day driving one makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up, pure passion that car is.

You wouldn't touch one would you Fella?, try and drive one for a couple of hours and see if you think they are crap!
Having owned an EVO2 model mid 00's it was the most entertaining car to own and drive and one which I wish I had never ever sold. Would love another but just too expensive for a minter nowadays!
I do agree with some of you peep's though, didn't expect to see the likes of the Grale and the Escos in the top ten, never really thought of them before as a 'Hot Hatch', Golf, Pug, Clio, Ren 5, Focus RS etc. yes

[LuS1fer]

Which reminds me, the Fiat Strada Abarth 130TC took the "best hot hatch" crown from the GTI at one point but that's not even in there as so few people remember them.

[jbforce10]

People whinging that an Integrale doesn't count because it's a limited-run homologation special.... they weren't as uber-exclusive as people may think and had a production run of over 44 thousand units. Compare this to the 12k Clio Williams or the 610 Clio v6s.

Just because a 20 year old car has a reputation for being expensive to maintain doesn't exclude it from the list.

[Grovsie26]

Clio V6? LOL good one. A 182 clio or a EP3 is a better hot hatch by miles. Hell the V6 is barely a hot hatch, it's not practical in the slighest, and it handles like a pig and it's heavy.

Rest of the list ain't to bad, though id personally have the EP3 ahead of the EK9 the 1.6 in the Ek9 was a bit gash, would of been better off with the B18c from the DC2.

[blartbox]

I still have the copy of CAR from 1986 where the R5 GT Turbo beat the 205 GTI & Honda CRX in a group test. Which is one reason I bought a nearly new one in 1990. Wish I still had it....

[Fury RS]

LuS1fer said:

Which reminds me, the Fiat Strada Abarth 130TC took the "best hot hatch" crown from the GTI at one point but that's not even in there as so few people remember them.

A very good mate of mine and a massive Fiat nut had the 105TC and the 130TC back in the late 80's, always raved about them!

[Slurms]

Stick it on the front page and lets have a rerun of the voting!

[mcelliott]

Good to see the top 2 are cars that I've either driven or owned. I always have a bit of a giggle when they mention about the on the limit handling and going through hedges backwards blah blah blah re the 205. Had mine for over 5 years and drove it like a complete nutcase and never experienced any of this. Complete urban myth, unless of course it was the XR2 boys jumping in the pug and not being used to the extra power!

[paige4205]

Having owned a fair few of these cars in the past including a integrale the delta wins hands down legends never die

[anything fast]

RacerMike said:

Some great cars on the list, but are the Clio V6, 5 Turbo, Delta Integrale and Escort Cosworth really hot hatches? My understanding of the term was a front engined FWD 'affordable' tweaked version of a mainstream hatch! None of those were really affordable at the time.

If we're being broad with the term, why not include the Sierra RS500 Cosworth and a Ferrari FF. Strictly speaking, they still have a hatch....

Supra Twin Turbo? Corvette? Firebird? Camaro, Mazda RX7, Mitsi 3000 GTO, Audi RS6 Estate, Mercedes E55AMG etstate, BMW M5 Touring, again all hatchbacks and 'HOT'

[TEKNOPUG]

jbforce10 said:

The Integrale Evo II wasn't a homologation car (previous models were) so just assume that all voters for the Delta meant that particular verion. Happy?

So an Evo II is a dull, cheap, shopping runabout that has had an engine and a few other mechanicals pinched from bigger cars in the range and sold cheaply to allow the masses some practical and affordable motoring thrills?

No. It isn't is it, not in the slightest. Therefore it isn't a "hot hatch" and shouldn't be on this list (I did voice my concerns when it was being originally created).

[imy85]

Wheres the Nissan Micra?????