RE: New Clio: Renaultsport talks back!
Discussion
It's not as hideous as I thought it would be.
Didn't someone in the spy pictures thread say the flappy paddle gearchange is an optional extra?
I'm sure the chassis will be at least as good as the previous model, and it will handle just as well. I don't think it will have lost that aspect of it.
I don't really see how a flappy paddle gear box is necessary on a car like this, or most other road cars, really. I get it on a race car or track specific car, or even on a flat out road car like the GTR or other various supercars, but on a hatch back that isn't actually that quick? Just a gimmick, really. If you were doing loads of miles, you'd probably want a diesel auto. Trying to cover all bases means that someting will be compromised, maybe that's what Renault have done.
Maybe this is the way the car market is shifting, certainly with the emissions and smaller engined turbo cars. To compete with the other competitors, they have to stick as many gimmicks on as possible, flappy paddle gearbox, front and rear diffusers, silly exhaust tips.
That's what I loved about the 197 and previous models, no gimmicks, just decent driving cars.
I've never done a trackday and not seen another Clio on track, but I can't imagine in 5 year's time when these are cheap and affordable as a track car that you'd strip and cage etc, that there will be many used like that.
I'd still love to drive one, just to see what it's like having driven most of the other RS range. The only advantage to having the turbo engine is cheap power gains in the future, which is quite handy.
I wonder if Renault will offer upgrade packages that keep the warranty, like the Mountune stuff you get for Ford.
Didn't someone in the spy pictures thread say the flappy paddle gearchange is an optional extra?
I'm sure the chassis will be at least as good as the previous model, and it will handle just as well. I don't think it will have lost that aspect of it.
I don't really see how a flappy paddle gear box is necessary on a car like this, or most other road cars, really. I get it on a race car or track specific car, or even on a flat out road car like the GTR or other various supercars, but on a hatch back that isn't actually that quick? Just a gimmick, really. If you were doing loads of miles, you'd probably want a diesel auto. Trying to cover all bases means that someting will be compromised, maybe that's what Renault have done.
Maybe this is the way the car market is shifting, certainly with the emissions and smaller engined turbo cars. To compete with the other competitors, they have to stick as many gimmicks on as possible, flappy paddle gearbox, front and rear diffusers, silly exhaust tips.
That's what I loved about the 197 and previous models, no gimmicks, just decent driving cars.
I've never done a trackday and not seen another Clio on track, but I can't imagine in 5 year's time when these are cheap and affordable as a track car that you'd strip and cage etc, that there will be many used like that.
I'd still love to drive one, just to see what it's like having driven most of the other RS range. The only advantage to having the turbo engine is cheap power gains in the future, which is quite handy.
I wonder if Renault will offer upgrade packages that keep the warranty, like the Mountune stuff you get for Ford.
rwindmill said:
So, we have confirmation from the horse's mouth. The new RS clio is heavier than the current RS Clio. And the Current RS Clio was 100kg heavier than the phase 2 Clio 172 cup.
Effectively, they have brought out an over-weight, automatic five-door shopping trolley, that behaves like a TDi.
Why not just buy the TDi version of the new clio, get the 100kg weight saving that they claim it has over the current standard model, and save your self some money on insurance and petrol costs.
Goodbye decent RS clio, we can say 'We knew you when..........'
Read it again, same weight as the current Clio... Initially does seem strange that the rest of the range is 100kg lighter than the current range but... DCT boxes are HEAVY, I'd imagine that's where the extra flab comes in. Effectively, they have brought out an over-weight, automatic five-door shopping trolley, that behaves like a TDi.
Why not just buy the TDi version of the new clio, get the 100kg weight saving that they claim it has over the current standard model, and save your self some money on insurance and petrol costs.
Goodbye decent RS clio, we can say 'We knew you when..........'
Still amazes me that no one with a trusted opinion in these matters has got their butt behind the wheel but the cars has been binned off as rubbish.
pycraft said:
I think we have to see this in context. Renault, like all the French manufacturers, is in major financial doo-doo. The fact is that the current clio sales are not helping this enough.
Consider it this way. There are cheap Clios and expensive Clios. They probably cost about the same to make. The expensive Clios have a chassis that make the Daily Mail reviewers say "DO NOT BUY THIS CAR IT WILL KILL YOU" (I'm paraphrasing). All the mainstream buyers are literally psuhed away from the premium model, given them the choice of a low-rent version, or a Min/500/1-series. They choose the latter.
Compare with VW. They make various Golfs cheap and expensive, which all probably cost about the same to make. If you can afford the expensive one - the GTI, say - you get the prestige badge and a car that you can live with even if you're not a PHer. VW takes its £10k extra and everyone's a happy camper. Why would Renault not want a bit of this?
Clearly they are trying to establish the RS brand as their "premium" model, but actually trying to sell it to more than a handful of enthusiasts. That still leaves the opportunity for a Cup model for the nutters, but means they sell enough to stay in business too, so everyone's happy.
You can't build a major company strategy about building small numbers of cars for enthusiasts. Ask Lotus.
Exactly, someone speaking a little sense and perspective. It's not the RenaultSport models thank bring the big profits. Good profits have allowed Renault to cater for their more enthusiastic customers and give them focused entertaining products. When times are hard you have to be careful where your money goes. Renault are no different, if they get things right more focused RS models will appear later.Consider it this way. There are cheap Clios and expensive Clios. They probably cost about the same to make. The expensive Clios have a chassis that make the Daily Mail reviewers say "DO NOT BUY THIS CAR IT WILL KILL YOU" (I'm paraphrasing). All the mainstream buyers are literally psuhed away from the premium model, given them the choice of a low-rent version, or a Min/500/1-series. They choose the latter.
Compare with VW. They make various Golfs cheap and expensive, which all probably cost about the same to make. If you can afford the expensive one - the GTI, say - you get the prestige badge and a car that you can live with even if you're not a PHer. VW takes its £10k extra and everyone's a happy camper. Why would Renault not want a bit of this?
Clearly they are trying to establish the RS brand as their "premium" model, but actually trying to sell it to more than a handful of enthusiasts. That still leaves the opportunity for a Cup model for the nutters, but means they sell enough to stay in business too, so everyone's happy.
You can't build a major company strategy about building small numbers of cars for enthusiasts. Ask Lotus.
Well - i'm an RS fan and much prefer the turbopower of the meganes to the lack of grunt from the clios tbh.
The gearbox in my cousin's GTR is spectacular - if Renaults attempt is anywhere near as good then great news if you ask me.
It's an interesting car - but at the end of the day its success will boil down to price IMO.
Good to see renault moving with the times though.
The gearbox in my cousin's GTR is spectacular - if Renaults attempt is anywhere near as good then great news if you ask me.
It's an interesting car - but at the end of the day its success will boil down to price IMO.
Good to see renault moving with the times though.
I couldn't read anything beyond 'wider audience', that phrase means it is compromised POS with daft features nobody cares about and the soft touch plastics a fat old 
like Clarkson so loves about Golfs.
Not everybody wants to drive a VAG group style car.
I cant read EVO anymore for that very reason.
It may as well be a ruddy diesel, and thats swearing!
like Clarkson so loves about Golfs. Not everybody wants to drive a VAG group style car.
I cant read EVO anymore for that very reason.
It may as well be a ruddy diesel, and thats swearing!
Edited by KM666 on Thursday 4th October 22:48
I like this and I generally like Renault a lot (first car a fked up R5 with slipping clutch, no handbrake and it wouldn't tickover. Taught me heal and toe.)
I've got a 182 that I fking love!
It's almost impossible not to rev the tits off her at least once every drive. I can't see me doing that with one of these...
I've got a 182 that I f
king love!It's almost impossible not to rev the tits off her at least once every drive. I can't see me doing that with one of these...
clarki said:
Well - i'm an RS fan and much prefer the turbopower of the meganes to the lack of grunt from the clios tbh.
Thing is, if you want turbo grunt... you could just buy a Megane then 
As everything seems to be going towards the 'Mini GTR' route are there going to be little, revvy N/A manual hot hatches left?!
Worried.....
Can't judge, but definately dissapointed there is no weight saving. I drive an RX-8, but if I wanted a hot Clio I'd want a 3 door. Maybe I'm in the miniroty (I must be) but I would rather save 100kg to make the car better in every way, instead of gaining 2 doors I barely use.
I understand though, I think the vast majority of clio's were 5 door and the cost of making the 3 door didn't make sense for them, but it's a shame it will hurt the RenaultSport model so much.
Hopefully they surprise...
Can't judge, but definately dissapointed there is no weight saving. I drive an RX-8, but if I wanted a hot Clio I'd want a 3 door. Maybe I'm in the miniroty (I must be) but I would rather save 100kg to make the car better in every way, instead of gaining 2 doors I barely use.
I understand though, I think the vast majority of clio's were 5 door and the cost of making the 3 door didn't make sense for them, but it's a shame it will hurt the RenaultSport model so much.
Hopefully they surprise...
It looks terrible, theres no doubt in my mind about that, proportions are way off especially the bulbous headlamps. But, I was really holding out hope that they'd somehow managed to find a equilibrium between these new efficiency required features in a way only the French likely could. After reading that I have little doubt what made the RS models special has truly gone, theyre effectively only allowing a little of that magic to remain and theyre sprinkling it over what an attempt at the VAG engineering ideology. PSA lost it, RS seem to have lost it, very sad indeed. Particularly I doubt there will ever be a day I prefer the thought of paddles and FWD, you need that manual to be able to really drive them by the scruff of the neck.
Edited by Repent on Friday 5th October 00:44
I actually like it. Is it really that bad guys??? Come on I think some of you are being OTT
TACottle said:
It looks minging though.
The headlights, and Renault badge at the front look far to big for its tiny body... Both grilles are pretty wrank too.
http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/images/L-Re... The 197 was much better looking.
The headlights, and Renault badge at the front look far to big for its tiny body... Both grilles are pretty wrank too.
http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/images/L-Re... The 197 was much better looking.
Edited by TACottle on Thursday 4th October 12:33
[quote=clarki]Well - i'm an RS fan and much prefer the turbopower of the meganes
Exactly! why is it that people are screaming from the rooftops just because of a switch to turbo power, when the megane is rightly credited as being the best hot hatch and is a turbo?? surely RS do know what they are doing and the new Clio will be just as good as the previous versions...I for one think this new one looks great. The new nose is definitely striking and gives it a more upmarket look. As a regular driver of a clio 197 (my brother's) Renault had to make certain changes to the engine...I mean it's more polluting than my BMW 330i which is an auto, and has an extra 2 cylinders and 70 odd horses!! so it is an inevitable change for them. As to the auto box, we'll have to see, but i've enjoyed driving around in my first auto and that's a 4 year old six speed slushomatic from ZF, not a smart twin clutch one...If I could say anything to convince the naysayers, A 335i coupe is a much better car with the DCT gearbox rather than the manual, and even though the manual on my brother's 197 is the best manual i've ever used, it is possible to create a fulfilling drive from an auto...
I say good luck to Renault - they deserve it!
P.s. (yes, my other car is a renault!!! - although a grand scenic for the family!!!)
Exactly! why is it that people are screaming from the rooftops just because of a switch to turbo power, when the megane is rightly credited as being the best hot hatch and is a turbo?? surely RS do know what they are doing and the new Clio will be just as good as the previous versions...I for one think this new one looks great. The new nose is definitely striking and gives it a more upmarket look. As a regular driver of a clio 197 (my brother's) Renault had to make certain changes to the engine...I mean it's more polluting than my BMW 330i which is an auto, and has an extra 2 cylinders and 70 odd horses!! so it is an inevitable change for them. As to the auto box, we'll have to see, but i've enjoyed driving around in my first auto and that's a 4 year old six speed slushomatic from ZF, not a smart twin clutch one...If I could say anything to convince the naysayers, A 335i coupe is a much better car with the DCT gearbox rather than the manual, and even though the manual on my brother's 197 is the best manual i've ever used, it is possible to create a fulfilling drive from an auto...
I say good luck to Renault - they deserve it!
P.s. (yes, my other car is a renault!!! - although a grand scenic for the family!!!)
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