RE: New Clio: Renaultsport talks back!

RE: New Clio: Renaultsport talks back!

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Discussion

AlexIT

1,482 posts

137 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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This is my firs post here on PH, although I've been lurking here for ages smile

I've bought my first Clio RS back in May 2000 (and it's still in my garage) and I have owned a few others in the past years.

I can recall that when I got the first, everyone (me included) was saying how the Willy was a better car... then when the Clio 3 came out, we (me too!) all said it was too lardy, and that the 182 was a better car, now history repeats itself.

I have seen the new Clio in flesh -a non RS of course- and I can't really say it's horrible... it's just as bad as most recent hatchbacks.
The fact that it will be 5 doors doesn't bother me neither, it might be a good excuse to ditch the wife (ooops... I meant the wife's :P ) Nissan Note.
1.6 L + Turbo: unfortunately the current trend is going towards that direction. I'm not sure how the F4R would have complied with oncoming emissions regulations; I was far sadder when Ford announced they would have abandoned the 5 cylinder. How the new engine will be in real life, well we will see.

I'm a little bit more concerned about the dual clutch paddle-shift: I'm not 100 % convinced that paddles make the driving experience less enjoyable by default, but they need to have an excellent 'box behind, otherwise it's a pain in the a**e. I hope Renault will use the experience gained on the Nissan GTR to make a good work.

The first thing that disappoints me really a little bit, however, is the choice to keep the standard panels as the regular Clio... I think it's the first time for a Renault hot hatch, even if in discreet ways like in the Clio 2 the wider body panel have been a distinctive mark.

But... what really worries me is the choice to ditch the bespoke double-axis strut system for - I assume - the standard McPherson, which technically is IMHO a big step backwards and to go back from the 4 pots Brembo caliper to single pot floating calipers.
Considering that, as said before, that the car will roughly weigh the same as the current, I can't see how they will be able to give a better driving experience...

I have also read that the Recaro won't be available any more, which would also be on my "- list"...

I really can't say I'm eager to try this new Clio, but maybe I'll be surprised.

Sorry for the long post wink
Alex

Emeye

9,773 posts

222 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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Since these small hot-hatches moved up a size, they are probably the perfect car for me, but there is one thing stopping me even considering most of the ones on the market now....

I can understand the change to 1.6 plus turbo - I've always preferred turbo engines in my hot-hatches anyway.

The five doors I can also understand too - I've had a 3 door and a 5 door Mk5 Golf Gti - the 3 door I had when I was single, the 5 door when I had kids. IME the 5 doors were always easier to sell secondhand as a large percentage of the hot hatch market have kids.

What I don't get accept is that they cannot produce a manual option - same as the VAG group with their Polo and vRS - surely the car would be atleast £1k cheaper with a manual gearbox?

So I will not be buying one, but what other options are there if I did decide to buy brand new? Does the 208 have a manual gearbox?

Roma101

835 posts

146 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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The more I see and hear of it, the worse it gets (IMO).

I drove a Clio 200 (current version) round Brands the other week and it was mega and I couldn't really see much room for improvement to the whole experience (didn't really 'feel' much slower than the Meganes either). Not saying that this is necessarily the case, but the new car being such a material departure from the current one, suggests it isn't going to be mega. We'll have to wait and see though.

And what customer surveys are these? French owners only is it?


aspen

1,419 posts

262 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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Being rather tall, 5 doors rules this out for me. Although the DSG, styling and turbo are also not on my list of wants in a fun car.

I think I may replace my 200 with a GT86.

Roma101

835 posts

146 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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il sole said:
clarki said:
Well - i'm an RS fan and much prefer the turbopower of the meganes


Exactly! why is it that people are screaming from the rooftops just because of a switch to turbo power, when the megane is rightly credited as being the best hot hatch and is a turbo?? surely RS do know what they are doing and the new Clio will be just as good as the previous versions...I for one think this new one looks great. The new nose is definitely striking and gives it a more upmarket look. As a regular driver of a clio 197 (my brother's) Renault had to make certain changes to the engine...I mean it's more polluting than my BMW 330i which is an auto, and has an extra 2 cylinders and 70 odd horses!! so it is an inevitable change for them. As to the auto box, we'll have to see, but i've enjoyed driving around in my first auto and that's a 4 year old six speed slushomatic from ZF, not a smart twin clutch one...If I could say anything to convince the naysayers, A 335i coupe is a much better car with the DCT gearbox rather than the manual, and even though the manual on my brother's 197 is the best manual i've ever used, it is possible to create a fulfilling drive from an auto...

I say good luck to Renault - they deserve it!

P.s. (yes, my other car is a renault!!! - although a grand scenic for the family!!!)
Not entirely sure that the Megane is generally accepted to be the best hot hatch overall (although I think it is generally accepted to be the best of the larger turbo'd, over 200 bhp hot hatches possibly). From what I can see, Evo ranks the 200 above the 265 and Chris Harris made the 200 video a few months ago and loved it and, from my own experience, I know a number of owners who have gone from Clio to Megane and have missed the former, a senior Renault UK guy I spoke to recently prefers the 200 and so do I after owning both. Not that any of that is really evidence, but I think saying which is better regarded isn't something we can really call. Both are cracking cars though. And I am sure the new Clio will be, but as is natural with technological progression, at each stage, something "organic" is lost.

il sole

287 posts

143 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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Roma101 said:
il sole said:
clarki said:
Well - i'm an RS fan and much prefer the turbopower of the meganes


Exactly! why is it that people are screaming from the rooftops just because of a switch to turbo power, when the megane is rightly credited as being the best hot hatch and is a turbo?? surely RS do know what they are doing and the new Clio will be just as good as the previous versions...I for one think this new one looks great. The new nose is definitely striking and gives it a more upmarket look. As a regular driver of a clio 197 (my brother's) Renault had to make certain changes to the engine...I mean it's more polluting than my BMW 330i which is an auto, and has an extra 2 cylinders and 70 odd horses!! so it is an inevitable change for them. As to the auto box, we'll have to see, but i've enjoyed driving around in my first auto and that's a 4 year old six speed slushomatic from ZF, not a smart twin clutch one...If I could say anything to convince the naysayers, A 335i coupe is a much better car with the DCT gearbox rather than the manual, and even though the manual on my brother's 197 is the best manual i've ever used, it is possible to create a fulfilling drive from an auto...

I say good luck to Renault - they deserve it!

P.s. (yes, my other car is a renault!!! - although a grand scenic for the family!!!)
Not entirely sure that the Megane is generally accepted to be the best hot hatch overall (although I think it is generally accepted to be the best of the larger turbo'd, over 200 bhp hot hatches possibly). From what I can see, Evo ranks the 200 above the 265 and Chris Harris made the 200 video a few months ago and loved it and, from my own experience, I know a number of owners who have gone from Clio to Megane and have missed the former, a senior Renault UK guy I spoke to recently prefers the 200 and so do I after owning both. Not that any of that is really evidence, but I think saying which is better regarded isn't something we can really call. Both are cracking cars though. And I am sure the new Clio will be, but as is natural with technological progression, at each stage, something "organic" is lost.
sorry - i meant the megane is the best hatch in its class. the clio being the best in its class...personally, I couldn't live with a clio RS day to day. I find the engine too inflexible when you don't want to drive the nuts of it and the lack of sixth gear in my brother's 197 is terrible. does the new 200 have a 6 speed yet?



pops and bangs

674 posts

156 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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I personally couldn't care less how good this car drives, it is ridiculously ugly.

Most people do initially go for cars based on how they look, obviously the way they drive etc can then affect a buying decision but surely most people buy cars they like the look of?!

Infact the more I see of it, it's not even ugly, it's fking disgusting.

I'll have a clio 200 in alien green or white please smile

RichyBoy

3,739 posts

216 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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Maybe semi auto is the way to go since heel n toe wasn't exactly effortless in these cars.

Singleseatracer

12 posts

148 months

Friday 5th October 2012
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Hang on to your 200, the new car makes its predecessor an instant classic

The bean counters have won the battle, this new Clio is not in the spirit of the Renaultsport tradition

Zajda

135 posts

146 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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Arnaud Barton said:
Blah blah blah, marketing crap, turbo because of torque, not the emissions, blah blah blah, customer demand blah blah blah

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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I know Renault's hands are tied on this one. What offends me is that they haven't had the integrity to just say "look, we're really sorry the new RS Clio is a load of watered down crap. There wasn't much else we could do". Instead, they are going on like we should be grateful for this load of bks they've presented us with.

rwindmill

429 posts

157 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Concise, and to the point. The perfect forum entry :-)

CarlT

3,423 posts

246 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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Baryonyx said:
I know Renault's hands are tied on this one. What offends me is that they haven't had the integrity to just say "look, we're really sorry the new RS Clio is a load of watered down crap. There wasn't much else we could do". Instead, they are going on like we should be grateful for this load of bks they've presented us with.
Really?

Hoygo

725 posts

160 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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Just spoke briefly to the Clio R.S marketing manager who said to me that there was a hardcore Clio 200 planed (like the R26.r) but was abandoned,not now though,it was back in 2008.

Now he has taken a new job as the Megane R.S marketing manager ans said that the new Clio R.S will deliver much more than the prev one while being accessible to a more larger market.

Clio 200's,Trophys etc are still there if anyone wants an exiting Clio,i didn't have my hopes high in the slightest about this new one.

CarlT

3,423 posts

246 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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Hoygo said:
Just spoke briefly to the Clio R.S marketing manager who said to me that there was a hardcore Clio 200 planed (like the R26.r) but was abandoned,not now though,it was back in 2008.

Now he has taken a new job as the Megane R.S marketing manager ans said that the new Clio R.S will deliver much more than the prev one while being accessible to a more larger market.

Clio 200's,Trophys etc are still there if anyone wants an exiting Clio,i didn't have my hopes high in the slightest about this new one.
Interesting! I am sure the Clio Product Manager for the UK has not changed roles. SHE has been doing it a while now.
2008 you say - iirc the Clio 200 came out in 2009! There was talk of a hardcore R version of the Clio last year, but it sadly it never came to fruition!

Hoygo

725 posts

160 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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CarlT said:
Interesting! I am sure the Clio Product Manager for the UK has not changed roles. SHE has been doing it a while now.
2008 you say - iirc the Clio 200 came out in 2009! There was talk of a hardcore R version of the Clio last year, but it sadly it never came to fruition!
Jean Boulanger is the one i am talking about,i don't know about the UK one,said that there were plans for a ".r" Clio R.S since back in 2008,referring to the upcoming 200 i think,and BTW in Germany the Clio Cup car was for sale to the public for about 65.000 euros since 2008 (197 shape),don't know if you could buy a Cup car for road use in UK too.

CarlT

3,423 posts

246 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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Hoygo said:
Jean Boulanger is the one i am talking about,i don't know about the UK one,said that there were plans for a ".r" Clio R.S since back in 2008,referring to the upcoming 200 i think,and BTW in Germany the Clio Cup car was for sale to the public for about 65.000 euros since 2008 (197 shape),don't know if you could buy a Cup car for road use in UK too.
Ok fair enough. Anyone could buy a Clio Cup race car direct from the factory in Dieppe. I believe they could be made road legal but the sequential gearbox would be pretty horrendous to use on the road.

r4_rick

452 posts

214 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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I've read a few posts from concerned RS fans, given their track record with hot hatches I think a bit more faith is on order !

E500 TAT

317 posts

198 months

Saturday 6th October 2012
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Maggi112 said:
Renaultsport has made the best of what the rules allow really. They HAD to do something about emissions. It's surely going to be the best of the new breed, and will no doubt handle fantastically

I still can't see what's wrong with it, other than people don't like change?
I can understand them having to go 1600 turbo for the emissions thing but the 4 door and auto only i can't get my head around, i think they'll lose customers for that reason.

If they realise they've made a mistake somewere down the line how are they going to reapir this mistake? not by re engineering a two door shell, the gearbox could be changed but the engine would have to stay. so it would still be what you see here.

The next twingo could get bigger and still be a two door but i doubt they'd give it an engine to rival this clio, that'd not make sense having the smaller car better/faster than the next model up.

People have started putting the megane 225/230 engine into the current clio 197/200 and then saying this is the car renault should have made but that would have done away with the megane making it no good/not so saleable.

pacdes

482 posts

160 months

Sunday 7th October 2012
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Still dog ugly. No matter how well it drives the sheer ugliness of it will put people off going for a test drive.

I had a 5 GT Turbo..... Loved it. Though every time it went in for a service I needed to take my bank manager with me to collect it, just in case.
Some years later whilst driving a Clio, I had the same issues when it went in for a service. Horrendous bill for unexpected work.
More recently I was in two minds between a type R and a 192 Clio. Though not testing the 192 I was willing to forgive my previous experiences because I liked the shape of the 192.
Then I slapped myself in the face and bought the type R.

Point.... Renault have just made choosing my next hot hatch a whole lot easier.