Login | Register
SearchMy Stuff
My ProfileMy PreferencesMy Mates RSS Feed
1
3 4
Reply to Topic
Author Discussion

craigjm

3,232 posts

85 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
HustleRussell said:
Japan's idea of 'luxury' is roughly comparable with that of 1990s Europe.
Really?

Rushmore

1,223 posts

27 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
What was the name of the Lexus convertible again which was positioned to be a SL competitor?

I wouldnt touch any of the brands mentioned. Horrible, simply horrible.

cptsideways

10,663 posts

137 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
I think you'll find Lexus customers see the quality in the build not in the style & thats not a sexy image but it will be reliable & for a few that comes above all else.


Also some of the worlds most wealthy drive Lexus's to hide their status, deliberately.

AlexiusG55

468 posts

41 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Rushmore said:
What was the name of the Lexus convertible again which was positioned to be a SL competitor?

I wouldnt touch any of the brands mentioned. Horrible, simply horrible.
SC430. Really not a sports car at all- clearly designed for cruising up and down slowly with the top down. Nice looking car, though.

Mazda, of course, tried to introduce Xedos as a luxury sub-brand in Europe only- they already had Eunos in Japan. There was also the failed Amati project, which would have had an RWD V-12 flagship...

Wadeski

6,091 posts

98 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Americans refused to put up with poor reliability and outrageous parts / servicing markups from British and German luxury Marques. This allowed the bullet proof Japanese competitors to edge in to the market.

Unfortunately, that means the product is very much aimed at Americans in terms of emissions and driving dynamics.

To dismiss them would be daft though - they are good cars.
Advertisement

Alfanatic

6,553 posts

104 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
I wonder if the US press was different. In SA, where I survived mostly on UK car mags, the first time I heard the name Lexus I also heard that it is an expensive Toyota, and I heard about Nissan / Infiniti at the same time. Since then, for years no article ever mentioned Lexus without pointing out that t was an expensive Toyota, so the image I got for Lexus was that it is an expensive Toyota. The disassociate by rebranding tactic doesn't work when the unofficial tagline is "expensive Toyota".

So I wonder if they shot themselves in the foot in Europe by being too open with the European press while on their initial US based campaigns (both marques tried to crack the US market first).

Edited by Alfanatic on Saturday 6th October 19:23

J4CKO

11,309 posts

85 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Because they dont lease them for £400 a month with a 140 bhp diesel engine, black leather interior and silver paint.

dhariwab

396 posts

36 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Asked my bro in law why he doesn't like Lexus? He said because they have no history! I said you like Apple products (he's got pretty much everything they've launched in the past few years) the Iphone has no history either yet you buy it? No answer. Just an irrational dislike for these cars amongst a few people I think.

AlexiusG55

468 posts

41 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
dhariwab said:
Asked my bro in law why he doesn't like Lexus? He said because they have no history! I said you like Apple products (he's got pretty much everything they've launched in the past few years) the Iphone has no history either yet you buy it? No answer. Just an irrational dislike for these cars amongst a few people I think.


Apple have as much history as almost anyone currently making personal computers (except HP). Same with MP3 players. Admittedly they're not as established in the mobile phone business as say Motorola or Nokia...

EDLT

14,713 posts

91 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
otolith said:
Prejudice, and a perception that "Germanic" = "quality".
+1, for proof read this thread.


g35x

12 posts

68 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
I'm an UK ex-pat living in Toronto and it took me a little while to get used to the car situation over here in North American. You've got to remember a few things:

- driving dynamics are slightly less important here than comfort given most of the driving is done on potholed highways as opposed to the twisting narrow smooth roads you get in the uk
- lexus and honda/acura are percieved as high quality brands, lexus at the top of the tree; when people think of bmw and audi they are seen as more sporty but less reliable
- acura and infiniti products are higher spec'ed and priced around 25% cheaper than the equivalent bmw/audi/merc products, they aren't direct competitors
- very few people have company cars, and if they do they are basic ford/gm products, so european cars are personal purchases
- people generally view cars as utilities as opposed to a status symbol, hence all the trucks and minivans on the road
- we dont get the basic bmw/audi models here, for example the most basic 3er here is the 323i, and most purchases would be 328s; so the price differential works even more to the favor of the japanese brands

I own both an Infiniti and Acura (MDX), and would prefer the BMW or Audi equivalents but they arent priced competively for what they are, and the new BMWs are plagued with overly complex engines/components and reliably suffers as a result.

I'm soon going to chop in my Infiniti g35 for another car, but its either going to be an old-skool Audi S5 with the v8, or a Lexus IS-F. Leaning towards the Lexus for gutsy low maintence motoring.




Edited by g35x on Sunday 7th October 00:13

Pentoman

4,411 posts

148 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Has anyone actually driven a Lexus IS? Very disappointing and this was when it was new.

The reasons they don't sell are many.

Style
Engines
Rarely that sporting or fun
Uneconomical
Just generally unremarkable with exceptions e.g. IS-F

And other less logical reasons are also true:

Image
Perception
History

But those are all valid reasons people buy cars. At the end of the day they can't engineer a global car to UK tastes and they slightly prefer the US market. Honda have realised this with the European model Civic being unique and designed in Europe. It's still a bit boring though despite the awesome styling and dashboard.

Some worrying and absurd suggestions in this thread though. Next it will be because of the illuminati.

otolith

25,791 posts

89 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Pentoman said:
Rarely that sporting or fun
.
The perception that luxury cars need to be"sporty" has ruined the ride quality of many German cars. It's like wearing training shoes with a suit. Compare an LS400 with an A8 - the ride quality of the Audi was borderline unacceptable for that kind of car. It's a bizarre attitude to luxury motoring.

Deerfoot

2,390 posts

69 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Pentoman said:
Has anyone actually driven a Lexus IS? Very disappointing and this was when it was new.
Yet as an ownership prospect they`re very good. The customer service owners get from a Lexus dealer would shame any of the premium German brands.

Kolbenkopp

916 posts

36 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Don't think any of them are working here (Germany). From 01.12 to 08.12 about 2.000 new Lexus and 700 Infini on the road, vs. roughly 180.000 for Audi, BMW and Mercedes each. Why? IMO its not really about the quality of the products. They just don't work for the company car market and image wise, while Japanese products are accepted for the reliabilty, people are more impressed by the local premium stuff.

belleair302

5,049 posts

92 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
In many cases it is the lack of dealerships, in some cases a lack of models within the range and finally badge appeal. For build quality, dealership relationships and lifetime cost of ownership a Lexus,infinity or Acura is a much better bet but the English have some odd belief that German cars are better built. I am sorry but they are not and usually are mass produced with numerous faults. It just shows the power of advertising and how easily people are parted from their money. The one problem the Japanese currently have with their upmarket cars is cost. The yen has remained strong even though their economy is weak and the cars are expensive to buy. A Lexus LS at over £90,000 is well under £70,000 in the USA. Some of this is VAT and Import Duty but most of it is bad pricing.

The Germans market themselves well via motorsport and advertising, the Japanese don't. Never have done never will.

drivin_me_nuts

15,962 posts

96 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Deerfoot said:
Pentoman said:
Has anyone actually driven a Lexus IS? Very disappointing and this was when it was new.
Yet as an ownership prospect they`re very good. The customer service owners get from a Lexus dealer would shame any of the premium German brands.
Absolutely this. Having had the pleasure of BMW dealerships on plenty of occasions in my experience they fail in every single customer care area compared to Lexus.


...

The big Toyota is a capable car in its own right and in many respects a far more compliant car for UK roads that an equivalent Audi or a BMW.

Studio117

3,235 posts

76 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
People in europe are far to concerned with the imagine of the lasest Germen trinket.

The m/rs/amg cars are very good, but if I had to choose a normal car at a lower spec then jap is the way forward. They pioneered tqm with Mr Deming etc and continue to make bloody good cars, bland and high performance.

All of the cooking and pov spec cars are very similar these days.

confused_buyer

2,719 posts

66 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
dhariwab said:
Asked my bro in law why he doesn't like Lexus? He said because they have no history! I said you like Apple products (he's got pretty much everything they've launched in the past few years) the Iphone has no history either yet you buy it? No answer. Just an irrational dislike for these cars amongst a few people I think.
A car company started by Hitler and another which made a fortune out of slave slabour from Dachau. wink

wildcat45

Original Poster:

3,774 posts

74 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all

Nissan is Infiniti, and they make the GTR. A lot people accept that's a rather nice thing to have and own. The thing that would (Stupidly) out me off would be the Nissan badge. Infiniti - I see as an American-biased international brand.

With Korean manufacturers upping their game in terms of style, quality, value, reliability etc, where will that take the executive market? 20 years time, could there be a Kia based brand that rivals Range Rover? A Hyundai based badge that sits there with Mercedes and BMW?

Do these upmarket Japanese brands fail for the same reasons that American brands (Ford apart) don't really sell here? chrysler 300C cars are a bit of an oddbal choice, though the taxi driver who picked me up in once, raved about it. My American aunt and uncle have one and are looking forward to the new one coming out.

Cadillac, despite GM underpinnings just didn't work did it. I know the cars were ugly, but at least they were individual.

I remember back in the 190s when they introduced teh RHD Seville, my Dad got invited along to give the new car the once over. It was loaded, had a bigger engine than his Volvo 9 series, was affordable and very luxurious. He didn't buy one. Thought long and hard, but in the end, he'd rather have had his 3 year old nicely specced but not great 940 Turbo than a new lump of luxury from Detroit.

The reason why I posted was because seeing the Ininiti the other day got me thinking.

I might replace my Mazda CX-7 sometime. A petrol engined soft roader, it is basically an American market car and never sold well here. I like it, love it in fact, that's why its is coming up to 5 years old and still with us. There is nothing really to replace it with. The new CX5 is a step down, and looks to me horrible.

I've noticed a few Korean offerings and I have to say they may lack class in the way perhaps a Land Rover might, but as a load lugger which might be needed to ford the odd stream and climp the odd snow covered rural road as well as take us on long journeys, they look just about right.

Something inside me whislpers "Land Rover, Land Rover Land Rover....." But a new Kia with loads of toys and a 7 year warranty does appeal. I got looking at Infiniti SUVs with their big engines and poor resale. A second hand one would tick a lot of boxes, I like the idea there aren't many around, but something holds me back when it comes to spending my own money.

Vauxhal Antara/Chevrolet Captiva. I assume they are crap. Are they realy? I just percieve my Mazda to be better because it is a Japanese brand I understand. I assume a Freelander will be a better car than a top of the range Captiva.

I think I am as much of a brand snob as a lot of people. I like to think I am not, I wish I wasn't.
1
3 4
Reply to Topic