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Rushmore

1,223 posts

28 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Well, if Lexus is a "luxury" brand, then please go ahead an "indulge" in all this "luxury".

I am happy to drive less-value-for-money/overrated/unreliable cars like an S500, an Arnage or a 911.

Dave Hedgehog

7,302 posts

90 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
AlexiusG55 said:
dhariwab said:
Asked my bro in law why he doesn't like Lexus? He said because they have no history! I said you like Apple products (he's got pretty much everything they've launched in the past few years) the Iphone has no history either yet you buy it? No answer. Just an irrational dislike for these cars amongst a few people I think.


Apple have as much history as almost anyone currently making personal computers (except HP). Same with MP3 players. Admittedly they're not as established in the mobile phone business as say Motorola or Nokia...
apple made the first personal computer (in kit form)

im pretty sure the iphone was the first of the modern smart phones, android certainly copied it

wildcat45

Original Poster:

3,830 posts

75 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
It depends on how old your Bentley is and how much it cost. I'd not think new it would be great value for money, (But someone who can afford one new, probably doesn't think about VFM in the same way as most people.) However a decent Bentley with a few miles under its belt represents huge value for money.

I think its a different thing. I wouldn't class cars like that in the same league as BMW/Lexus et al. I mean, there is a big difference running round in a 12 year old BMW 7 sereis and a 12 year old Arnarge.

Alfanatic

6,606 posts

105 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
dhariwab said:
Asked my bro in law why he doesn't like Lexus? He said because they have no history! I said you like Apple products (he's got pretty much everything they've launched in the past few years) the Iphone has no history either yet you buy it? No answer. Just an irrational dislike for these cars amongst a few people I think.
I thought Apple had more history than anyone else in the smartphone market. Lexus and Infiniti didn't really release a revolutionary new class of vehicle. They certainly did move the game on, but not in a way that would be obvious to a layman scanning through pictures and glancing at the occasional caption. It's also not like their established competition was notoriously unreliable in the first place.

craigjm

3,239 posts

86 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Deerfoot said:
Yet as an ownership prospect they`re very good. The customer service owners get from a Lexus dealer would shame any of the premium German brands.
You should go and set foot in a Porsche dealer then. Lexus dealers are not really that special in comparison.
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Deerfoot

2,413 posts

70 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
craigjm said:
You should go and set foot in a Porsche dealer then. Lexus dealers are not really that special in comparison.
To be honest my post was aimed at BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz dealers as (LFA aside ?) Lexus don't really compete with Porsche IMHO.

Anyway, there are some less than flattering reports of OPC customer service in the Porsche section so who knows.

k-ink

6,091 posts

65 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
To me a quality product (not just a car) would be well made and last forever. An item which goes wrong is simply low quality. This is where Lexus marks itself out from their competitors.

confused_buyer

2,749 posts

67 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Alfanatic said:
I thought Apple had more history than anyone else in the smartphone market. Lexus and Infiniti didn't really release a revolutionary new class of vehicle. They certainly did move the game on, but not in a way that would be obvious to a layman scanning through pictures and glancing at the occasional caption. It's also not like their established competition was notoriously unreliable in the first place.
Not really. HTC (and others) was way before them with various devices using Windows Mobile. Nokia did some using their own OS too. Apple was probably the first to come up with a touchscreen system which worked but there were smartphones which did email, audio, some apps etc. before 3G came out.

g3org3y

9,249 posts

77 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Because the UK is too brand obsessed.

BuzzLightyear

1,426 posts

68 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Infiniti offer a decent 3.0 diesel and a hybrid as well as the V6 ( and A V8) across all models, although not all engines are available in every model, so several posts are incorrect.

I have an Infiniti G37 coupe / convertible. I looked at the Audi opposition and had a BMW before the Infiniti. For me, the G37 offered the best deal, with regard to price and ownership. The fact that it was (and still is) a rare car, only increased it's appeal. It is quick, well-equipped as standard, comfortable and looks pretty good IMO.

Nothing has gone wrong with it to date although there are a couple of squeaks from the roof over rough roads, the back seats have limited space and the roof takes up most of the boot when it is folded. It is not very economical but then again, it does have that rather nice, 300 and something bhp V6 up front to play with. The flappy paddle gearbox is pretty good (although I admit, I would prefer manual) and the ride and handling are very, very good, again, IMO.

The service from Infiniti has been excellent: although the dealer is quite a distance from me, it is not an issue as they collect the car when it is due a service, leave me a courtesy car and then return my car afterwards. They aspire to equal Lexus levels of service and I certainly have no complaints.

I really don't know why they haven't been more successful in their sales - I guess so few people are aware of them, they just do not figure often in the decision-making process.

I am seriously considering replacing the G37 with another Infiniti when the time comes.
smile


confused_buyer

2,749 posts

67 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Rushmore said:
Well, if Lexus is a "luxury" brand, then please go ahead an "indulge" in all this "luxury".

I am happy to drive less-value-for-money/overrated/unreliable cars like an S500, an Arnage or a 911.
I'm not quite sure what you're on about. They all make "luxury" cars, i.e. large engined, large and/or fast cars which exceed most people's needs. Therefore they are all luxury brands.

Two of them, make exclusively what most consider "luxury" products, Lexus makes some smaller hatchbacks and last time I looked a Mercedes Vito wasn't a luxury car so where's the difference?

Rushmore

1,223 posts

28 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
The difference between a new S500 and a Vito?

king arthur

2,583 posts

147 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
I think it's already been said, it's that they are just the upmarket creations of other brands rather than being car makers with heritage in their own right. Most people know Lexus as the luxury Toyota brand, indeed some Lexus models have been rebadged Japanese-market Toyotas. Whereas a BMW, Mercedes or Jaguar has never been perceived as a rebadged anything, apart from one instance in the case of the Jaguar X-Type, and look what happened to that.

ITP

553 posts

83 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Luxury in terms of cars to me means mainly refinement, build quality and a powerful 'enough' engine. High g cornering speeds not so important.

I must say in the last 15 years or so Mercedes have lagged behind Lexus quite badly on the build quality front.

Ahead on brand image though, if that floats your boat.

XB70

1,875 posts

82 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
I've sampled more than a few of the flagships (and close to flagships) of the various manufacturers and can say:

- the W140 series in coupe and sedan (LWB) form are built like tanks and do have the feeling of "move peasant!" but can and will cost a small fortune to keep maintained to the proper level. It was worth the price that they were in the late 90's.

- the W220 was massively disappointing and, for the first owner, was staggeringly expensive. I would have been really ticked off had I paid the new price for it. It went like stink but the build quality was through the floor.

- the LS's. Where to begin. I've had a few but today is actually the 1st anniversary of owning my LS430. Some say it's a googly-eyed old man's barge. Others sneer and call it a rebadged Toyota. To me, it the best built car I have ever owned and extremely comfortable with every manner of gadget you could want. "Ah, but it's not sporty". Yes, in the same way that neither is an S-Class, 7 series, A8, Phaeton or XJ.....since they are not meant to be. The uber-horsepower AMG's are sledgehammers with warp speed performance and ability to frighten many supercars but what is sporty? It is not a near two ton sedan! It has been many years since I have owned anything approaching a small car so am used to driving large barges around on B-roads etc.

Sport settings selected on the suspension, stick in D and you would be amazed at how quickly and smoothly they can get from A to B. And the noise! The 4.3 really sings at the top end and it is one seamless shift from one gear to the next.

But no one expects that since it is not how Lexus market the LS; nor how they are reviewed or tested by magazines and certainly not (I am guessing) how the average purchaser of an LS gets to actually experience what they can do on a test drive.

Which suits me in the end. Very understated, brilliant to drive, utterly reliable and (increasingly) part of a growing group who hear the "rebadged Toyota" comments and just smile knowingly.

A lack of history? I could not care less.

And the replacement? An LS600HL is next. It will be a long long time before I don't own an LS.

Edited by XB70 on Sunday 7th October 21:56

craigjm

3,239 posts

86 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
king arthur said:
I think it's already been said, it's that they are just the upmarket creations of other brands rather than being car makers with heritage in their own right. Most people know Lexus as the luxury Toyota brand, indeed some Lexus models have been rebadged Japanese-market Toyotas. Whereas a BMW, Mercedes or Jaguar has never been perceived as a rebadged anything, apart from one instance in the case of the Jaguar X-Type, and look what happened to that.
So... first off someone above doesnt recognise the history of Audi and states they were great from the start and now we have the same with BMW and a denial that they ever rebadged something. Go back to your history and check out how BMW started making cars

tonker

47,127 posts

134 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Deerfoot said:
Pentoman said:
Has anyone actually driven a Lexus IS? Very disappointing and this was when it was new.
Yet as an ownership prospect they`re very good. The customer service owners get from a Lexus dealer would shame any of the premium German brands.
Owned one.

A fortune in warranty claims on it. Dealer superb.

Doing it again - 2.5 petrol auto excellent combo and a really good car, if not that quick.

2.2 diesel 175hp with manual box awful in any traffic. The gearbox being the first problem - notchy, too long and dire after any time in heavy traffic. Engine next - unless you really, really tried, hardly more economical than the petrol auto.

Good car. Just not as a UK spec diesel (FSport with shorter top gear may be better)

SCRR

73 posts

28 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
g3org3y said:
Because the UK is too brand obsessed.
This. This. A thousand times this. Arrogant and brand obsessed, but utterly oblivious to the fact that the rest of the world (quite rightly) does not give a st about our opinion.

stevoknevo

549 posts

76 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
XB70 said:
And the replacement? An LS600HL is next. It will be a long long time before I don't own an LS.
My Wife's best friend got married recently and had an LS600hL as her/their wedding car, had a look around it and it was stunning! Her Husband is a Lexii-phile, gets a new one every 6mths as a company car. Recent ones have been an iS250i, iS250i cab and presently an RX450h. The iS's, nice as they are, don't really stack up to an equivalent 3 series (seeing that is what the original conception was based on!)undoubtedly, better built, but it doesn't feel like it from the drivers/passengers seat. Materials just feel a bit low rent, and the fuel economy was woeful, decent enough to drive though and had some decent equipment. I had a loan of his RX450h for the weekend, brilliant car! Excellent fuel economy for what it is, infinitely adjustable seating position and steering wheel, fabulous stereo and bloody quicker and handles better than it has any right to. Interior feels bombproof but not special and I think that is why many people shy away from them.
His dad has an Audi S8 V10 and that has a fabulous interior even compared to the much newer 600hL, even the new Jag XJ that he procured for his brother in laws wedding car, felt so much more special than the RX despite them costing similar amounts.
I stayed in a pretty rough area of Glasgow when I borrowed the RX and had no qualms about parking it outside my flat; I'd have been stting it with the Jag or Audi!

Lexi's are undeniably brilliantly engineered cars, but I think most people (in the UK)want European design philosophy. I'd love to see what Lexus could produce with a European/British designer at the helm?

Edited by stevoknevo on Sunday 7th October 23:10

XB70

1,875 posts

82 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
stevoknevo said:
My Wife's best friend got married recently and had an LS600hL as her/their wedding car, had a look around it and it was stunning! Her Husband is a Lexii-phile, gets a new one every 6mths as a company car. Recent ones have been an iS250i, iS250i cab and presently an RX450h. The iS's, nice as they are, don't really stack up to an equivalent 3 series (seeing that is what the original conception was based on!)undoubtedly, better built, but it doesn't feel like it from the drivers/passengers seat. Materials just feel a bit low rent, and the fuel economy was woeful, decent enough to drive though and had some decent equipment. I had a loan of his RX450h for the weekend, brilliant car! Excellent fuel economy for what it is, infinitely adjustable seating position and steering wheel, fabulous stereo and bloody quicker and handles better than it has any right to. Interior feels bombproof but not special and I think that is why many people shy away from them.
His dad has an Audi S8 V10 and that has a fabulous interior even compared to the much newer 600hL, even the new Jag XJ that he procured for his brother in laws wedding car, felt so much more special than the RX despite them costing similar amounts.
I stayed in a pretty rough area of Glasgow when I borrowed the RX and had no qualms about parking it outside my flat; I'd have been stting it with the Jag or Audi!

Lexi's are undeniably brilliantly engineered cars, but I think most people (in the UK)want European design philosophy. I'd love to see what Lexus could produce with a European/British designer at the helm?

Edited by stevoknevo on Sunday 7th October 23:10
I was looking around the new one at the Paris Motor Show last week and, in the past hour or so when I have been drooling over LFA footage on YouTube (what I would not give for this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z-IKZGXKN4&fea... I noticed that the LFA and the new LS shared the same 'mouse' controller for the multimedia interface.

However.....it looks odd on the LS since it has this leather wrist rest that just seems completely at odds with the rest of the surrounding console.
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