Advice on second car!

[HustleRussell]

Papa Hotel said:

300bhp/ton said:

Exactly how different is a TR7 from an e36 then.. I mean what exactly is going to make it difficult to use or keep?

Lack of "manufacturer still being in business" for one.

It'll be at least ten years older than the BMW.

It was bodged together by a second-rate workers in a second-rate factory.

Spares won't be plentiful nor cheap.

Just four things, this list is not exhaustible.

All of 300BHP's suggestions are out of the ark. He's not an uninformed chap when it comes to cars, so how can he possibly believe that an E36 BMW is comparable with that lot? Do you need to oil trunnions on a E36 BMW? do you have to adjust the wheel bearings? Adjust valve clearances? operate a choke? Will an E36 BMW leak oil of various types from it's every orifice? I could go on...

[LeeMad]

doogz said:

LeeMad said:

At 18, I'd recommend a saxo vtr to be honest. Everything mentioned here will cost a fortune to insure and maintain.

You're kidding, right?

Well v8's, mr2's old porsches, BMW's etc will probably cost as much to insure but a fk load more in fuel and maintenance. Add relatively powerful rwd into the mix and I'd say the saxo is a much better idea for an inexperienced driver.

[danjama]

A saxo is a first car.

[300bhp/ton]

doogz said:

danjama said:

And alternatively a mk2 mr2. Non turbo of course. Easily does 60 under 10 seconds, and is constantly fun and interesting to drive daily.

Much better looking too IMO. Passed one the other day, an H plate. They've aged well. Not quite as well as the RX-7, still one of the best looking cars ever made IMO, but for a 20 year old car, they still look great.

+1

[43034]

A Saab, maybe?

That's what I have for my second car. 0-60 in 7.5 and 220bhp (185 standard but had a remap). Insurance is cheap as the stats are on your side (I'm 18 with 1 NCB and paying £1200).


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-SAAB-9-3-2-0-SE-TUR...

[300bhp/ton]

Papa Hotel said:

300bhp/ton said:

Exactly how different is a TR7 from an e36 then.. I mean what exactly is going to make it difficult to use or keep?

Lack of "manufacturer still being in business" for one.

Are you really that dumb or just naive?

You can buy pretty much EVERY single part new for a TR7, including new engines and complete bodyshells.

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/SubCategory--Triumph-T...
http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/TriumphTR7.aspx
http://www.ss-preparations.co.uk/


To list just a few places, but there are loads more retailers in the UK. Parts are easier to get for TR7 than they are for a modern Nissan.

Papa Hotel said:

It'll be at least ten years older than the BMW.

So.. you point being. It'll be 10 years older than something that is already 15-25 years old? Big deal.

Papa Hotel said:

It was bodged together by a second-rate workers in a second-rate factory.

Ok it seems you really are that dumb..

Papa Hotel said:

Spares won't be plentiful nor cheap.

Wrong on both counts. See the links above.

Papa Hotel said:

Just four things, this list is not exhaustible.

[300bhp/ton]

HustleRussell said:

Papa Hotel said:

300bhp/ton said:

Exactly how different is a TR7 from an e36 then.. I mean what exactly is going to make it difficult to use or keep?

Lack of "manufacturer still being in business" for one.

It'll be at least ten years older than the BMW.

It was bodged together by a second-rate workers in a second-rate factory.

Spares won't be plentiful nor cheap.

Just four things, this list is not exhaustible.

All of 300BHP's suggestions are out of the ark. He's not an uninformed chap when it comes to cars, so how can he possibly believe that an E36 BMW is comparable with that lot? Do you need to oil trunnions on a E36 BMW? do you have to adjust the wheel bearings? Adjust valve clearances? operate a choke? Will an E36 BMW leak oil of various types from it's every orifice? I could go on...

Well I reckon I've done in the region of 100,000 miles in TR7's, many of them commuting miles. So far I've never had to adjust a wheel bearing (although a mate did on his Impreza at the weekend, so maybe they are old tat??). Never had to adjust the valve clearances or anything else. Ok it has a choke cable, wow big deal, it's really difficult to operate Seriously it's as usable every day as an e36, I know this as I've just both daily.

In fact apart from service items the only thing that hasn't broken through abuse (rather than use) is the alternator. Which I swapped out at the weekend.

[300bhp/ton]

LeeMad said:

doogz said:

LeeMad said:

At 18, I'd recommend a saxo vtr to be honest. Everything mentioned here will cost a fortune to insure and maintain.

You're kidding, right?

Well v8's, mr2's old porsches, BMW's etc will probably cost as much to insure but a fk load more in fuel and maintenance. Add relatively powerful rwd into the mix and I'd say the saxo is a much better idea for an inexperienced driver.

How exactly, or rather what exactly would cost more to maintain on something like a 924 over a Saxo?? Can you cite some real world examples of huge cost difference?

As for fuel, well it depends how many miles you are doing, but I suspect a Saxo is only going to be 38-43mpg sort of car and maybe less if you make use of the revs and power. Something like a 924 should be 25-32mpg. If you are doing 6000-8000 miles a year the fuel cost difference is pretty insignificant.

[HustleRussell]

300bhp/ton said:

How exactly, or rather what exactly would cost more to maintain on something like a 924 over a Saxo?? Can you cite some real world examples of huge cost difference?

That's just silly.

[300bhp/ton]

HustleRussell said:

300bhp/ton said:

How exactly, or rather what exactly would cost more to maintain on something like a 924 over a Saxo?? Can you cite some real world examples of huge cost difference?

That's just silly.

Why?

Unless you are majorly unlucky most normal bits are not going to be hugely more expensive. And you could also be unlucky with the Saxo.

Rust might be an issue, but tbh on a £2k example you'd probably just look to keep it solid rather than try and make it mint.

Engines are VW/Audi origin, gearboxes should be robust enough, so that just leaves normal car maintenance bits like discs, pads, shocks, springs and bushes. Oil and filters won't cost any more either compared to a Saxo.

e.g.


Brembo discs and pads for the 924, only £101.50
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FRONT-Brembo-Brake-Discs...


Shock absorber for the 924 £60
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-924-Shock-Absorb...

924 oil filter £2.99
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oil-Filter-PORSCHE-924-P...

Service kit 924 £17
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Filter-Service-Kit-Oil-A...

924 alternator belt £3.56
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-924-ALTERNATOR-B...

924 drop link bush £18.93
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Drop-Link-Bush-Front-Por...


These don't look like silly running costs to me. How much cheaper would these parts be for a Saxo?

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

300bhp/ton said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Call me old fashioned....but recommending a V8 to a 17 year old sounds like a recipe for disaster!

Why? An RV8 is not overly powerful and many modern 4 cylinder cars can be just as powerful and as quick. Also what better way to learn about something but with experience? Even better if it's something with low grip and moves about easily.

I've not come on here for an internet argument, but seriously?

I've read zillions of posts on here from RWD newbies who've had serious moments, never mind 190+ hp inside about a tonne.

[matthias73]

ajb85 said:

Will a 318i do 60 in under 10?

How about a 2.0 Alfa 156? 60 in about 8.

We talking e46?

The earlier 1.9 will do it in roughly ten, but not under.
The later 2.0 will do it in well under ten.

I couldn't get insured on the 2.0 though.

[Gooly]

318is is the same insurance as a 318i believe it or not, I ran quotes on both and thats for the E30 and E36.

Seems to be a little bit of confusion though, OP mentioned 318is and then a 318i, they're pretty different propositions, ones a wheezy 8v single cammer with 105BHP and the other is a nice revvy twin cam with 140BHP and pretty damn desirable since it's not too much slower than the sixes but has alot less weight over the front. E36 318is would be a lovely proposition as they are still very cheap, E30 318is's are rapidly approaching classic territory and prices for decent ones are almost hitting £2,000. You can still find a cheap one if you look hard enough though. I'd just stick with an E36 tbh.

[Papa Hotel]

300bhp/ton said:

ot that I'd want to deny your choice. But if I was 22 with £6k to blow on a motor car with the intent of attending track days, I wouldn't be looking at either of these.

My logic for this is quite simple.

1. Classic and kit cars will be better on insurance
2. Old/rawer cars will likely be more fun, and potential for a more rewarding/exciting drive and ownership
3. Any car out of warranty (which the ones you are looking at are) is just as likely to need fixing as a classic or kit. And often more expensive to sort.
4. Over all ownership cost is likely to be better with a more specialist car. They simply won't depreciate as much.


So to that end, I personally could not chose a Clio or modern low powered Celica, not when similar money or less could buy you things like these:



4.6LTR 350i Special (1988)
7,000 miles £4,000
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1835504.htm


TVR S2 2.9 V6 (1990) (1990)
36,000 miles £5,250
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1869800.htm


PONTIAC FIERO 3.4 HIGHLY MODIFIED (1985)
£4,995
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1721665.htm


924S Special
£3,500
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1789338.htm


944 S2 - Bridge Spoiler 1992 (1992)
140,000 miles £4,400
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1844094.htm


WESTFIELD SE (narrow body pre lit) (1988)
9,250 miles £4,350
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1737545.htm


MAZDA MX5 1.8 2000 FSH (2000/W)
97,000 miles £2,495
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1856229.htm


GTM Libra (2005) (2005)
62,000 miles £6,000
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1874760.htm


LOTUS EXCEL (1985)
84,000 miles £4,295
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1744259.htm


Mini Cooper Sportspack (1999)
23,400 miles £4,995
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1788777.htm


Eagle SS V8 (1971)
1,306 miles £4,500
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1864076.htm


Robinhood Superspec (05) - 2ltr T-series Rover (2005)
4,554 miles £5,500
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1882493.htm




But hay, maybe it's just me


However, you could buy almost any of these cars, run them for a year and sell them for very similar money. So it does mean you could buy, try and if you don't like change for something else at very little cost.

These suggestions, from our very own 300bhp/ton, come from a thread over two years old in which someone couldn't decide between a Celica or a Clio!

Ten Internet Points to whoever spots the running theme.

BTW, I wasn't stalking you 300, the Eagle SS intrigued me and I found this post through a Google Images search.

[300bhp/ton]

Papa Hotel said:

These suggestions, from our very own 300bhp/ton, come from a thread over two years old in which someone couldn't decide between a Celica or a Clio!

Ten Internet Points to whoever spots the running theme.

BTW, I wasn't stalking you 300, the Eagle SS intrigued me and I found this post through a Google Images search.

And I still stand by the same choices/recommendations.

[Papa Hotel]

300bhp/ton said:

And I still stand by the same choices/recommendations.

I admire your tenacity, the way you stick to your guns.

[300bhp/ton]

Papa Hotel said:

300bhp/ton said:

And I still stand by the same choices/recommendations.

I admire your tenacity, the way you stick to your guns.

As a point of note, I do as a rule try and establish what the OP is actually after from a car. Not just the type of car they might first say, e.g. they might say "I need a hatch", but if they are only ever carrying 1 or 2 people and don't haul anything big, do they need a 5 seater hatch? Probably not, which means other cars and car types are indeed viable options, even if they differ from their first suggestion.

I also wouldn't recommend anything I either haven't sampled myself or wouldn't consider giving a go should the circumstances permit.

Hope this helps

[Ecosse RM]

Focus ST 170 with good tyres and healthy brakes and suspension is within budget and a great car if it's of interest, not as much grunt as the ST MK 3 Focus but feels much lighter and really handles well.

I miss mine.