RE: BBR spices up MX-5 1.8

RE: BBR spices up MX-5 1.8

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Discussion

peter450

1,650 posts

232 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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otolith said:
"The 1.8 is tedious, it can't be considered a sports car by any means"

I would say that one good way of identifying a sports car is to ask if it would still be one if it were slow - by which metric, if the 1.8 isn't one, nor is the BBR version.
That makes no sense, if you take the V8 out of the 458 and stick in a 1 litre eco teck it wont be a sports car anymore either

An certain level of performance is required for a sports car to be a sports car, thats why the Mx5 has it's iffy rep because it was arguably on the wrong side of that line

otolith

55,794 posts

203 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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The sense in it is that being a sports car has very little to do with performance. If Ferrari sold a version of the 458 which is not a sports car, I would argue that none of them are. Same sense that all Z4s are sports cars and no 3-series are.

(It might be a sports car which is undesirably slow, I didn't say that it still had to be any good)

Speed_Demon

2,662 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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otolith said:
The sense in it is that being a sports car has very little to do with performance. If Ferrari sold a version of the 458 which is not a sports car, I would argue that none of them are. Same sense that all Z4s are sports cars and no 3-series are.

(It might be a sports car which is undesirably slow, I didn't say that it still had to be any good)
Oh lord, not this can of worms again!

otolith

55,794 posts

203 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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The bloke from BBR started it!

V8RX7

26,739 posts

262 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Hellbound said:
V8RX7 said:
JudgeMental said:
986 Boxster S. 6 sp manual 252BHP 0-60 5.8 162mph, Standard insurance. £6k
Fast but not really fun though, you can't get the back out with a dab of the throttle nor throw it around an island etc

Completely different kind of car - also an MX5 engine will cost you maybe £1k a Boxster could cost you 7x that - and far more have let go compared to MX5s.
So you've driven the BBR cars then? I'd imagine with reworked suspension along with the engine upgrades you'll be looking at a different car entirely compared with what you started with.

I'd go 987 Boxster every day of the week. You'd be an idiot not to even entertain the idea of owning one over a fettled MX5. Which, as pointed out, would be like throwing £5k down a well over two years of ownership.

Plus you're not even factoring in the ownership benefits of driving a Porsche. Jokes aside of it being a Boxster (although mute compared with an MX5!), there has to be a quantifiable benefit to having a premium badge over a Mazda.
I've driven all Mks of MX5 both supercharged, turbo and std.

BBR don't make the supercharger - Cosworth do, BBR just add their electronics.

I have owned well fettled MX5s for over 14yrs and I have considered and bought and driven all sorts of other cars from Monaro, Boxster, 996, 968, RX7 etc and none give me the same fun on the road as my supercharged MX5 - with the possible exception of my recently acquired V8 RX7 but I'll see whether I still feel that way in a few months.

"there has to be a quantifiable benefit to having a premium badge over a Mazda" - It is nice to own a nice car, particularly for those needing an ego boost - but I've owned them and sold them yet kept my MX5.

I have considered the BBR SC MX5 in the PH classifieds at £10k (surprised no one has mention it yet) but it doesn't do anything better (IMO) than my current Mk1 which is worth half that amount and IMO a Mk1 is much prettier.



scz4

2,491 posts

240 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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I have a S2000 at present, had a couple of M3's and a superchared Z4 3.0 in the past.

A supercharged MX5 certainly appeals for it's simplicity and lightweight chassis. No one has mentioned the power to weight figure which would be much better than my S2000 and in line with a E36\E46 M3. That's a quick car! Which will arguably corner and stop better than it's heavier counterparts. Only downside is it will still have a fairly ordinary 4 cyl sound.


Edited by scz4 on Tuesday 9th October 21:58

Hellbound

2,500 posts

175 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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V8RX7 said:
I've driven all Mks of MX5 both supercharged, turbo and std.

BBR don't make the supercharger - Cosworth do, BBR just add their electronics.

I have owned well fettled MX5s for over 14yrs and I have considered and bought and driven all sorts of other cars from Monaro, Boxster, 996, 968, RX7 etc and none give me the same fun on the road as my supercharged MX5 - with the possible exception of my recently acquired V8 RX7 but I'll see whether I still feel that way in a few months.

"there has to be a quantifiable benefit to having a premium badge over a Mazda" - It is nice to own a nice car, particularly for those needing an ego boost - but I've owned them and sold them yet kept my MX5.

I have considered the BBR SC MX5 in the PH classifieds at £10k (surprised no one has mention it yet) but it doesn't do anything better (IMO) than my current Mk1 which is worth half that amount and IMO a Mk1 is much prettier.
That's a great reply. Now if you hadn't owned any of those cars and could only run one car for a couple of years, wouldn't you be drawn to the Porsche? I think a single chap in his late 20's/early 30's would be a bit of a badge snob and the ego boost you mention would go hand in hand with his confident and happy-go-lucky nature. Resale value would also be a major draw.

Maybe we're comparing apples with pears, they're both good cars but for different reasons. I'd also say what you find fun and rewarding may not be what I find fun and rewarding.

edc

9,227 posts

250 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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V8RX7 said:
JudgeMental said:
986 Boxster S. 6 sp manual 252BHP 0-60 5.8 162mph, Standard insurance. £6k
Fast but not really fun though, you can't get the back out with a dab of the throttle nor throw it around an island etc.
You can chuck a Boxster around and hang it out if you want to. Sure, you might be going a bit faster than an MX5 when you do have a go, but it doesn't make it any less fun necessarily.

I'm sure the BBR car would be decent fun but chuck a few £100 at a Boxster and you get much better noise and a slice more power knocking on 300 bhp.

Gizmoish

18,150 posts

208 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Still recommending Adrian Flux? There's an interesting approach.

V8RX7

26,739 posts

262 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Hellbound said:
That's a great reply. Now if you hadn't owned any of those cars and could only run one car for a couple of years, wouldn't you be drawn to the Porsche? I think a single chap in his late 20's/early 30's would be a bit of a badge snob and the ego boost you mention would go hand in hand with his confident and happy-go-lucky nature. Resale value would also be a major draw.

Maybe we're comparing apples with pears, they're both good cars but for different reasons. I'd also say what you find fun and rewarding may not be what I find fun and rewarding.
The Boxster is a great drive but it's not a hooligan's car and I like a tail happy car that's controlled by the throttle I find most modern cars are too heavy and too capable to have fun in at anything under double the speed limit.

I had my 944 Turbo at the same time as my Griffith 500 and it was far better built and quick but it wasn't fun even with 300bhp and the TVR was too flawed / unreliable to keep as a daily.

A lot depends how / where you drive, I live in the countryside and don't do many miles if I lived in the City or did 30k a year I have no doubt I'd own different cars.

BogBeast

1,136 posts

262 months

V8RX7

26,739 posts

262 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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BogBeast said:
That was already on my watch list.

Although I do wonder if it's as close to finished as he says - why doesn't he finish it ?

bobberz

1,832 posts

198 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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V8RX7 said:
I've driven all Mks of MX5 both supercharged, turbo and std.

BBR don't make the supercharger - Cosworth do, BBR just add their electronics.

I have owned well fettled MX5s for over 14yrs and I have considered and bought and driven all sorts of other cars from Monaro, Boxster, 996, 968, RX7 etc and none give me the same fun on the road as my supercharged MX5 - with the possible exception of my recently acquired V8 RX7 but I'll see whether I still feel that way in a few months.

"there has to be a quantifiable benefit to having a premium badge over a Mazda" - It is nice to own a nice car, particularly for those needing an ego boost - but I've owned them and sold them yet kept my MX5.

I have considered the BBR SC MX5 in the PH classifieds at £10k (surprised no one has mention it yet) but it doesn't do anything better (IMO) than my current Mk1 which is worth half that amount and IMO a Mk1 is much prettier.
Good points. One point that hasn't really been touched upon is, for people like me (no garage & works on my own cars), the MX-5 will be far easier to work on at home; the Boxster, though a very capable & nice car, pretty much would have to be taken to a shop. In addition, having owned German cars, parts prices can be cost-prohibitive.

I'd be willing to bet that, even with the higher stress of supercharging, the BBR MX-5 will probably cost considerably less over the long-term than the Porsche.


MadDog1962

890 posts

161 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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RB Will said:
was interested until I saw the £6k conversion price.
You can buy a bloody TVR for that.
Yeah, but this is probably going to be a lot less trouble and heartbreak than a Trevor. It's a lot of moolah for an MX5 but the performance is going to be pretty special. Only problem with an MX-5 is the cramped cabin. Over here I can buy a good useable 'Vette for the same money, and that will have room for legs as well a s a satisfying V8 rumble.

stewjohnst

2,441 posts

160 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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MX-5's weren't the only thing BBR used to tinker with...somebody buy this please?

I'd be tempted but I'm in the middle of a house renovation and only found this because I'm listing my old one thats in bits...

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=2...

MadDog1962

890 posts

161 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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stewjohnst said:
MX-5's weren't the only thing BBR used to tinker with...somebody buy this please?

I'd be tempted but I'm in the middle of a house renovation and only found this because I'm listing my old one thats in bits...

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=2...
Good shed of the week candidate? If I was back in the homeland I'd be well tempted :-)

Ionican

41 posts

226 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Well I've been running one of the 2.0L BBR SC's for 18 months now (and will be shortly track-daying it at Silverstone).

I bought a 7000 mile mk3.5 specifically to have the conversion put on. Total price all in was almost spot on £20k. I guess I was comparing with what else I could get for around £20k that was near-new. The only other expenditure has been to have Wheels-in-motion sort out the springs and do the geometry. It definitely rides 'low' now - speed bumps have to be taken cautiously but IMO it does look great - a real roller-skate.

Brakes I believe are traditionally strong on the MX-5 - I guess Silverstone will be a test for them though. Economy stayed exactly as it was (about 35mpg) once I'd had the conversion done which was a pleasant surprise.

Performance is very progressive. I'd say the engine is a little more grumbly below 2500 rpm but once it gets there it pulls nicely all the way to the red line with increasing ferocity.

I bought this car for a quite specific reason - I wanted to learn how to drive better on the limit. The power and weight distribution mean I can get on the limit at pretty much any speed. Thanks to P1 I've driven most of the supercars and the issue for me was that liberties had to be taken to reach the cars' limits... I guess I didn't have the bottle to put the car at risk - and therefore just wasn't learning any more about car control.

Anyway - it's been great fun. I don't really expect to get any of the SC expenditure back on sale. Next car will quite possibly be a new Boxster - but I'm hoping that once I've saved up the cash I'll have enough confidence to push that nearer its limits in a vaguely safe manner!

Will report back from Silverstone!
R




Riknos

4,700 posts

203 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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MIP1983 said:
Why do this over getting an S2000? You could leave it as standard and enjoy more power than the supercharged mx-5 (and have money in your pocket), or you could spend similar money, add a TTS supercharger and have 350bhp plus.

Edited by MIP1983 on Tuesday 9th October 14:38
Comparing the 2.0 litre car being BBR'ed (you can pick up 2.0 mk3s for <£5k now, so why bother with a 1.8?) thus giving 245 bhp at more of the rev range than an S2000 (Have you driven one?) Gives much more usable power.

abarber said:
The original 2ltr cosworth conversion had some reliability concerns and was withdrawn for some markets. Has this been resolved?
A long time ago. There has been several PH articles since about it. The previous 'issues' were caused by a dodgy map from America. This has been resolved with BBR's own map they developed.

hill79 said:
The MX-5 is usually attractive due to it's fun/cost ratio and in fairness, ~£6000 for a 6 year old two seater soft-top (as per the classified advert) is a good deal, even if it is the less desirable 1.8 engine.

But

Spending another ~£6000 on *just* supercharging the same car is lunacy. You'd be mad not to fit bigger brakes, let alone uprate the suspension, easily another £1000. I know the MX-5 has a strong, loyal fanbase but you'd have to be nuts to consider this.
Supercharging the 2.0 Sport is a better option, as it comes with uprated suspension and brakes, many owners don't need to change them as they are more than enough out the box.

moskvich427 said:
But how much of the outlay would you get back when you sell the car on again?
"Not much" is my guess... you're still left with a fairly old MX-5 at the end of it.
BBR will buy back a used supercharger install (for £1000) and will also fit you a used package slightly cheaper than the brand new one - complete with warranty still.


But bottom line - It's a lot of money for the power.

As was mentioned on the previous 'Super 180' article on here - g40Steve with some help from Rodders and others on MX5Nutz are trying to get just under 200bhp out of a 2.0 for ~£1000. Much better value.

Personally, for the purchase price of the mk3 + adding a BBR kit, you'd be better off spending the amount on a Boxster of S2000.

Standard MK3 2.0 for <£5000 is seriously good bang for buck though.


Itsallicanafford

2,750 posts

158 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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...I think the guy above has got the right idea, you go into a purchase like this with your eyes open and expect to loose cash at resale....but can you imagine the look on people's faces when you keep up with some of the quicker machinery on trackdays...that where your cash has gone...if you can afford it, keep it when you get your boxster as a track day tool, perfect...

mrdemon

21,146 posts

264 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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would you keep up though 220BHp is hardly going to scare most peoples track day cars.