RE: Spotted: Porsche 944
Discussion
.jimfrance said:
the forged 220 engines are way stronger due to a thicker block and forged internals which was not a feature of the 250 cars.
I think one can overlook that one of the main features was a larger turbo and more power 
hence why the 220 cars have just that 220bhp forged internals and all..;)Now if we are talking turbo "cup" cars a feature which they didnt have was electric windows or leather seats. Therefore the Late 250bhp car trumps them..
A.C.E said:
They sure are pretty!
I think all the front engined cars are fantastic and fantastic bargains. I went straight from 924 to 968 but I was actually looking for a '44 S2 when the 968 hove into view. For sheer drivability I don't think ther's much to beat them providing the suspension is in good shape. They flatter the driver something chronic.
The 928 is an itch that's going to have to be scratched one day mind you.
Blade tis a "fact" that the earlier thicker block forged internals engines are stronger ask Jon Mitchell, Porsche decided that it was not necessary on later cars due to cost and the later engines were strong anyway.
My later car does not have forged internals and is around 310 reliable, no issues BHP.
Rot issues of course depend on how and where they have been kept but i still believe all being equal the earlier cars fare better in that department, my 220 has spent most of it's life garaged and looked after and is completely rot free,the same can be said of the Turbo S but it has had some cosmetic surgery to the outer sills which has been fine now after about 5 years.
Just echoing my experiance of owning 2 models for a number of years.
My later car does not have forged internals and is around 310 reliable, no issues BHP.
Rot issues of course depend on how and where they have been kept but i still believe all being equal the earlier cars fare better in that department, my 220 has spent most of it's life garaged and looked after and is completely rot free,the same can be said of the Turbo S but it has had some cosmetic surgery to the outer sills which has been fine now after about 5 years.
Just echoing my experiance of owning 2 models for a number of years.
A friend bought one for a 'Ring trip. It was an early one with the funny yellow dials, and was an utter shed (£500; the windows didn't wind down and it had patches of bare metal all over it for some reason) but it sat quite nicely at a GPS 120+ on the autobahn, and would have done more if there was room.
Charlie B i own a genuine M758 Turbo S 88 MY stage 2 with 310 BHP which is an absolutely fantastic, rapid practical car.
I also own a 86 220 Turbo with mild tune to 250 BHP, the earlier car is probably quicker mid range (in standard form) due to quicker spool up plus the fact it is lighter.
I also own a 86 220 Turbo with mild tune to 250 BHP, the earlier car is probably quicker mid range (in standard form) due to quicker spool up plus the fact it is lighter.
jimfrance said:
Blade tis a "fact" that the earlier thicker block forged internals engines are stronger ask Jon Mitchell, Porsche decided that it was not necessary on later cars due to cost and the later engines were strong anyway.
My later car does not have forged internals and is around 310 reliable,
I'm on Tipec too so I know what Jon says. Are you stating that you know for a fact your later car doesn't have a forged crank or pistons ?.My later car does not have forged internals and is around 310 reliable,
jimfrance said:
Charlie B i own a genuine M758 Turbo S 88 MY stage 2 with 310 BHP which is an absolutely fantastic, rapid practical car.
I also own a 86 220 Turbo with mild tune to 250 BHP, the earlier car is probably quicker mid range (in standard form) due to quicker spool up plus the fact it is lighter.
Sounds excellent. What size wheels do you have on your mildly tuned early 86 car? I would personally be worried putting all that power down on the standard width tyres.I also own a 86 220 Turbo with mild tune to 250 BHP, the earlier car is probably quicker mid range (in standard form) due to quicker spool up plus the fact it is lighter.
Late owners would not suffer that problem with the wider set up so on balance I suspect the extra grip on offer from a totally standard car(such as mine)would balance things out. Perhaps not?
Never looked TBH Blade,i very much doubt that it has as i believe they were only fitted to 86 MY cars, M50 Designation i beleive ?
As previously posted Porsche did not see the need for it on later cars plus it was obviously more cost effective.
GH8 the alloy sump undertray does make a difference to downforce, so your car with it missing may well have suffered, obviously there for a reason !
As previously posted Porsche did not see the need for it on later cars plus it was obviously more cost effective.
GH8 the alloy sump undertray does make a difference to downforce, so your car with it missing may well have suffered, obviously there for a reason !
Re' the spec differences between 88/89 turbo S and the late model turbo 250 SE's I couldnt feel any difference to drive between my silver Rose and then the later cars, and the later cars were nicer to use with leather s/roof etc. They key thing about these S/SE 250's was having the lsd and big brakes which they both shared over the other models.
I always thought the 89 was topof the tree with most things as standard, before they were not available and afterwards they were options. Like the adjustable suspension, transaxle with lsd and its own oil cooler etc.
I have had an 88S and an 89 Turbo. I still miss the latter dearly. Used it in all weathers, and found ita d oddle to drive. In bad weather, keep it below 3k revs and you wont wake the turbo. It'll still be an 80mph car, but with less power, so no wheel spin if you see what I mean.
I have had an 88S and an 89 Turbo. I still miss the latter dearly. Used it in all weathers, and found ita d oddle to drive. In bad weather, keep it below 3k revs and you wont wake the turbo. It'll still be an 80mph car, but with less power, so no wheel spin if you see what I mean.
UK952 said:
very nice - has it just been painted?, the indicator repeater is missing in the photo
Yes, its been tucked in my garage for a few years....and ive just repaired. (Re-plated) the lower front wings, and lower rears...sills were good though. Car is original colour though, and is rather clean. Putting it all back together, and taking some oics over weekend.Charlie, at present it is on standard Turbo teledials 16" 225 rears (Toyo T1R) with no issues though it is rarely used in wet weather, it also has a set of 16 7 + 8 Fuchs and a set of 17" Cup 1's with 255 rears, as said never pressed on in the wet but absolutely fine in dry.
Turbo S has Cup 1's with 255 Conti 3's again no problems whatsoever in the dry never driven hard when wet, i also have the original Forged CS Forged wheels again fine, i tend not to "gun" them in low gears as i have some mechanical sympathy but i am pretty sure they could be made to break away quite easily on whatever tyre combination if so desired.
Turbo S has Cup 1's with 255 Conti 3's again no problems whatsoever in the dry never driven hard when wet, i also have the original Forged CS Forged wheels again fine, i tend not to "gun" them in low gears as i have some mechanical sympathy but i am pretty sure they could be made to break away quite easily on whatever tyre combination if so desired.
probably chalk said:
That is just stunning and I'm going to use the fact that mine's the same colour to post pic despite it not exactly being a 944...
I think all the front engined cars are fantastic and fantastic bargains. I went straight from 924 to 968 but I was actually looking for a '44 S2 when the 968 hove into view. For sheer drivability I don't think ther's much to beat them providing the suspension is in good shape. They flatter the driver something chronic.
The 928 is an itch that's going to have to be scratched one day mind you.
I went from a 944 Turbo to a 968 and whilst it is a lovely car and much more 'complete' in terms of its chassis, I still miss the Boost and sheer drivability of the 944 TurboI think all the front engined cars are fantastic and fantastic bargains. I went straight from 924 to 968 but I was actually looking for a '44 S2 when the 968 hove into view. For sheer drivability I don't think ther's much to beat them providing the suspension is in good shape. They flatter the driver something chronic.
The 928 is an itch that's going to have to be scratched one day mind you.
I agree with you on the 928, it will have to be done at some point!
jimfrance said:
Never looked TBH Blade,i very much doubt that it has as i believe they were only fitted to 86 MY cars, M50 Designation i beleive ?
I believe all the turbo cranks and pistons are forged, I dont think a cast crank or piston would tolerate twice the bhp or boost of the production car.CharlieB said:
Someone please correct me but arent the brakes slightly diffferent, while they are the same brembo configuration with identical piston sizes and performance, they have slightly different casings on the latest cars iirc these are off the 928 S4. Mine and others have smooth casings with porsche decals but the earlier MO30 units had raised porsche lettering which was machine turned.
Not sure if this was a specific difference between actual 'S' cars and those late 250bhp cars or weather it was just a different casting used by Brembo from a certain year, but I would go as far to suggest that all the 's' cars all had raised script M030 calipers.
Perhaps this has been answered Charlie, as I havent read beyond your post, but: there are three front caliper for 944 Turbos. The 1986 model year caliper was unique and was superceded for MY87, but it was broadly similar. The larger calipers available as an option on 1988> Turbos and all 968s and standard on 250BHP Turbos, were sourced from the 928S4.Not sure if this was a specific difference between actual 'S' cars and those late 250bhp cars or weather it was just a different casting used by Brembo from a certain year, but I would go as far to suggest that all the 's' cars all had raised script M030 calipers.
All Porsche Brembos had a raised script originally, but this cast in namestyle was replaced by decals on later cars. The 928S4 calipers take substantially larger pads and are a definite upgrade.
Fat Albert said:
...and my 9 year-old can change the brakes:
Cool. Will you ask him if the caliper were suffering from plate lift, please? Im reluctant to fit my own pads in case they are, although theyre new calipers.I owned the car for quite a while before realising that they were later type, with decals instead of the raised script...
jimfrance said:
Blade tis a "fact" that the earlier thicker block forged internals engines are stronger ask Jon Mitchell, Porsche decided that it was not necessary on later cars due to cost and the later engines were strong anyway.
My later car does not have forged internals and is around 310 reliable, no issues BHP.
Rot issues of course depend on how and where they have been kept but i still believe all being equal the earlier cars fare better in that department, my 220 has spent most of it's life garaged and looked after and is completely rot free,the same can be said of the Turbo S but it has had some cosmetic surgery to the outer sills which has been fine now after about 5 years.
Just echoing my experiance of owning 2 models for a number of years.
This is true Jim, but the forged rods and thicker blocks were only found on the M44/50 engines. As soon as Porsche were happy that they were holding up they moved to the M44/51 engines whih didnt have forged rods.My later car does not have forged internals and is around 310 reliable, no issues BHP.
Rot issues of course depend on how and where they have been kept but i still believe all being equal the earlier cars fare better in that department, my 220 has spent most of it's life garaged and looked after and is completely rot free,the same can be said of the Turbo S but it has had some cosmetic surgery to the outer sills which has been fine now after about 5 years.
Just echoing my experiance of owning 2 models for a number of years.
I understand that some of these engines benefited from forged rods until the supply was exhausted, its only early (85 build and possibly some 86 build) cars which have them. Certainly not all 220s, or even all 1986 model year cars, as people seem to believe now.
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