Why don't people understand filter lanes?
Discussion
Liokault said:
Megaflow said:
Liokault said:
Unless the fact of him "pushing in" at the front somehow increases the number of cars going through the pinch point per minute, its not reducing congestion, its’ just reducing his waiting time by slightly increasing everyone else’s.
It's not increasing the number of cars going through the pinch point, it is reducing congestion by using all of the available road space, thus reducing the length of the queue and potentially keeping roundabouts and junctions further back down the queue free of stationary cars.Road works on a dual carriage way, a tail back of 100 cars at 10 meters per car, using a single lane is a queue of 0.625 of a mile.
Road works on a dual carriage wat, a tail back of a 100 cars at 10 meters per car, using BOTH lanes is a queue of 0.315 of a mile.
The OP going to the front of the line doesn’t reduce congestion. Everyone using utilising two lanes will reduce the overall tail back, but not the wait time.
Unless you need the saved 0.315 of a mile of road for something else, you haven’t gained anything.
Parsnip said:
Liokault said:
Megaflow said:
Liokault said:
Unless the fact of him "pushing in" at the front somehow increases the number of cars going through the pinch point per minute, its not reducing congestion, its’ just reducing his waiting time by slightly increasing everyone else’s.
It's not increasing the number of cars going through the pinch point, it is reducing congestion by using all of the available road space, thus reducing the length of the queue and potentially keeping roundabouts and junctions further back down the queue free of stationary cars.Road works on a dual carriage way, a tail back of 100 cars at 10 meters per car, using a single lane is a queue of 0.625 of a mile.
Road works on a dual carriage wat, a tail back of a 100 cars at 10 meters per car, using BOTH lanes is a queue of 0.315 of a mile.
The OP going to the front of the line doesn’t reduce congestion. Everyone using utilising two lanes will reduce the overall tail back, but not the wait time.
Unless you need the saved 0.315 of a mile of road for something else, you haven’t gained anything.
There is a dual carriageway that turns into a single 50mph stretch between Norwich and Great Yarmouth. If I use it these days I just sit in the traffic. I've nearly been hit several times and I just can't be arsed with it.
Some knob in some s
tty 4x4 just pulled out infront of me while I was wafting passed them all at about 30mph. I still don't know how I manage not to hit him but he then gave me the bird when I shook my head at him.
It was always quite funny watching people risk hitting each other in a queue of traffic just to stop me getting in.
An easy fix would be to put big signs on both sides of the road saying 'USE BOTH LANES'.
Some knob in some s
tty 4x4 just pulled out infront of me while I was wafting passed them all at about 30mph. I still don't know how I manage not to hit him but he then gave me the bird when I shook my head at him.It was always quite funny watching people risk hitting each other in a queue of traffic just to stop me getting in.
An easy fix would be to put big signs on both sides of the road saying 'USE BOTH LANES'.
Liokault said:
Parsnip said:
Liokault said:
Megaflow said:
Liokault said:
Unless the fact of him "pushing in" at the front somehow increases the number of cars going through the pinch point per minute, its not reducing congestion, its’ just reducing his waiting time by slightly increasing everyone else’s.
It's not increasing the number of cars going through the pinch point, it is reducing congestion by using all of the available road space, thus reducing the length of the queue and potentially keeping roundabouts and junctions further back down the queue free of stationary cars.Road works on a dual carriage way, a tail back of 100 cars at 10 meters per car, using a single lane is a queue of 0.625 of a mile.
Road works on a dual carriage wat, a tail back of a 100 cars at 10 meters per car, using BOTH lanes is a queue of 0.315 of a mile.
The OP going to the front of the line doesn’t reduce congestion. Everyone using utilising two lanes will reduce the overall tail back, but not the wait time.
Unless you need the saved 0.315 of a mile of road for something else, you haven’t gained anything.
Using a single lane where there is two certainly cannot reduce congestion, so at best it's breakeven. At worst, you've caused unnecessary congestion for miles and miles of road behind you.
I often drive in and out of Edinburgh on the A71 Calder Road.
This is a dual carriageway with 2 lanes in each direction, and a bus lane operational some of the time in some of the Lane 1 sections.
There are 3 roundabouts on this section of road which have "Use Both Lanes" signs before the roundabout, and Merge In Turn Ahead then "Now" signs after the roundabouts. These are to improve traffic flow.
Unfortunately, very few people use lane 1 before the roundabout, leaving massive queues in lane 2. This can queue back to the previous roundabout. The problem is also exarcerbated because some people that do use lane 1 before and on the roundabouts decide to merge as soon as possible after the roundabout (i.e. at the "Merge in turn ahead" signs. The people attempting to merge just after the roundabout inevitably stop because the traffic is queuing in lane 2. This means if there are any cars behind them, they have to stop in Lane 1 too. The roundabout is now unnecesarily blocked up, because the cars waiting to merge should be 100 yards along the carriageway merging at the start of the bus lane.
Google maps link: http://goo.gl/maps/dCetb
Next time I'm out that way at rush hour, I'll try and set up a video and stick it on youtube.
I have had to use a merge in turn in Milton Keynes for some weeks now in the evening on my way home, and I have been experimenting on purpose to see what actually happens.
The crusaders on here insisting it is their right to merge in turn at the merge in point, and that they always do it fairly and everyone else is at fault.
Well. After watching for a few weeks, it is not always that simple.
I have, on purpose, always left at least 1 car length ahead of me free on approach to the merge in. Many people that use the second lane in the merge scenario, will completely ignore that space, and do everything they can to push in further ahead. Without warning diving at a gap that doesn't exist and expecting people to move. Sometimes 2-3 cars all follow each other and expect the person to allow them all in, in one sitting.
It is only when my gap gets right to the front of the queue, that a car will eventually pull in, and then several others will try and bully their way in aswell.
The posters on here may well be patient and polite and have people try and force them off the road for no good reason. But unfortunately it is the people I have been observing for weeks that everyone else has become climatised to, and take umbridge with.
If I ever use the second lane, I just watch out for a gap left by someone like myself and glide in easily, with a wave. I never fail to see one in a queue, and I have never had anybody try and ram me off or give me abuse.
Perhaps people need to think about pulling in when there is an opportunity to do so, not taking the highway code grade moral highground and insisting that the merge in should be at the front.
The crusaders on here insisting it is their right to merge in turn at the merge in point, and that they always do it fairly and everyone else is at fault.
Well. After watching for a few weeks, it is not always that simple.
I have, on purpose, always left at least 1 car length ahead of me free on approach to the merge in. Many people that use the second lane in the merge scenario, will completely ignore that space, and do everything they can to push in further ahead. Without warning diving at a gap that doesn't exist and expecting people to move. Sometimes 2-3 cars all follow each other and expect the person to allow them all in, in one sitting.
It is only when my gap gets right to the front of the queue, that a car will eventually pull in, and then several others will try and bully their way in aswell.
The posters on here may well be patient and polite and have people try and force them off the road for no good reason. But unfortunately it is the people I have been observing for weeks that everyone else has become climatised to, and take umbridge with.
If I ever use the second lane, I just watch out for a gap left by someone like myself and glide in easily, with a wave. I never fail to see one in a queue, and I have never had anybody try and ram me off or give me abuse.
Perhaps people need to think about pulling in when there is an opportunity to do so, not taking the highway code grade moral highground and insisting that the merge in should be at the front.
I congratulate your valiant efforts 
Poor driving is poor driving.
Merge in turn requires both parties to recognise their responsibilities.
There should be a gap between every car so that another car can - you guessed it - merge in turn.
Unfortunately congestion is exarcerbated when one party is unaware of their requirement to give priority, and someone else tries to take the priority anyway. Two wrongs, and all that.
Poor driving is poor driving.
Merge in turn requires both parties to recognise their responsibilities.
There should be a gap between every car so that another car can - you guessed it - merge in turn.
Unfortunately congestion is exarcerbated when one party is unaware of their requirement to give priority, and someone else tries to take the priority anyway. Two wrongs, and all that.
Liokault said:
I agree that using both lanes may in some circumstances reduce ancillary congestion. I disagree that using both lanes reduces congestion at the point the dual carriageway becomes single lane.
I don't believe anybody has ever said anything about reducing the congestion at the point it changes from dual to single, two lanes into one, a set numbers of cars, there is always going to be congestion and nothing is going to stop this.This is about reducing congestion *upto* the point they merge.
At what point do you think that people should merge then?
Megaflow said:
Liokault said:
I agree that using both lanes may in some circumstances reduce ancillary congestion. I disagree that using both lanes reduces congestion at the point the dual carriageway becomes single lane.
I don't believe anybody has ever said anything about reducing the congestion at the point it changes from dual to single, two lanes into one, a set numbers of cars, there is always going to be congestion and nothing is going to stop this.This is about reducing congestion *upto* the point they merge.
At what point do you think that people should merge then?
"At what point do you think that people should merge then?"
I think it really dosent matter. Personally, I always drive to the end and move in, but I don't pretend that its the right thing to do.
simoid said:
I congratulate your valiant efforts
Poor driving is poor driving.
Merge in turn requires both parties to recognise their responsibilities.
There should be a gap between every car so that another car can - you guessed it - merge in turn.
Unfortunately congestion is exacerbated when one party is unaware of their requirement to give priority, and someone else tries to take the priority anyway. Two wrongs, and all that.
This is the heart of it... Unless everyone is aware of what they should do or how to do it, it will always be frustrating to those who do. In these circumstances (merging) I tend to merge early simply because I can't be bothered with the stress and confrontation if I leave it until the actual point where lanes converge. Similarly my lane discipline is pretty good (I think it is, the fact I even know what it is puts me in the top 10% drivers) but I don't dogmatically move to Lane 1 every time there's a space because I know that someone on autopilot in L2 won't anticipate me wanting to come out again and I'll be trapped having lost my momentum. (I tend to travel at that awkward 75 ish speed that is too fast for trucks but not fast enough to always be overtaking....)Poor driving is poor driving.
Merge in turn requires both parties to recognise their responsibilities.
There should be a gap between every car so that another car can - you guessed it - merge in turn.
Unfortunately congestion is exacerbated when one party is unaware of their requirement to give priority, and someone else tries to take the priority anyway. Two wrongs, and all that.
uncinquesei said:
This is the heart of it... Unless everyone is aware of what they should do or how to do it, it will always be frustrating to those who do.
The problem is, I think the early mergers indirectly create the stress by creating an opportunity for late mergers to make big progress. If they styed put, the resulting equilibrium would mean that people that had been in L1 all along would only have people merging at the end, rather than constantly over the last 800 yards. simoid said:
Multiply that by a few roundabouts and then you have fairly serious congestion.
Using a single lane where there is two certainly cannot reduce congestion, so at best it's breakeven. At worst, you've caused unnecessary congestion for miles and miles of road behind you.
I often drive in and out of Edinburgh on the A71 Calder Road.
This is a dual carriageway with 2 lanes in each direction, and a bus lane operational some of the time in some of the Lane 1 sections.
There are 3 roundabouts on this section of road which have "Use Both Lanes" signs before the roundabout, and Merge In Turn Ahead then "Now" signs after the roundabouts. These are to improve traffic flow.
Unfortunately, very few people use lane 1 before the roundabout, leaving massive queues in lane 2. This can queue back to the previous roundabout. The problem is also exarcerbated because some people that do use lane 1 before and on the roundabouts decide to merge as soon as possible after the roundabout (i.e. at the "Merge in turn ahead" signs. The people attempting to merge just after the roundabout inevitably stop because the traffic is queuing in lane 2. This means if there are any cars behind them, they have to stop in Lane 1 too. The roundabout is now unnecesarily blocked up, because the cars waiting to merge should be 100 yards along the carriageway merging at the start of the bus lane.
Google maps link: http://goo.gl/maps/dCetb
Next time I'm out that way at rush hour, I'll try and set up a video and stick it on youtube.
I posted a thread about this problem on this very road several years ago. Couldnt stand it any longer so moved to Northumberland.Using a single lane where there is two certainly cannot reduce congestion, so at best it's breakeven. At worst, you've caused unnecessary congestion for miles and miles of road behind you.
I often drive in and out of Edinburgh on the A71 Calder Road.
This is a dual carriageway with 2 lanes in each direction, and a bus lane operational some of the time in some of the Lane 1 sections.
There are 3 roundabouts on this section of road which have "Use Both Lanes" signs before the roundabout, and Merge In Turn Ahead then "Now" signs after the roundabouts. These are to improve traffic flow.
Unfortunately, very few people use lane 1 before the roundabout, leaving massive queues in lane 2. This can queue back to the previous roundabout. The problem is also exarcerbated because some people that do use lane 1 before and on the roundabouts decide to merge as soon as possible after the roundabout (i.e. at the "Merge in turn ahead" signs. The people attempting to merge just after the roundabout inevitably stop because the traffic is queuing in lane 2. This means if there are any cars behind them, they have to stop in Lane 1 too. The roundabout is now unnecesarily blocked up, because the cars waiting to merge should be 100 yards along the carriageway merging at the start of the bus lane.
Google maps link: http://goo.gl/maps/dCetb
Next time I'm out that way at rush hour, I'll try and set up a video and stick it on youtube.
Bringing this thread back.
Getting really annoyed at this daily occurrence now. Every night on the way home from work I use this island and it gets rather busy.
Now people just sit there for ages, ignoring the fact that there is a filter lane on the right. Baffles and annoys me.
At least twice a week someone will swing right and block off both side of the roads when they see me coming, usually around where the yellow line ends. I often get swore at and a friendly fist shook at me because in their little heads I am pushing in-front of them.
What is it about British people and not understanding how a filter lane works?
They even understand them in America. (call them zip lanes IIRC?)
Gah. Morons.
Getting really annoyed at this daily occurrence now. Every night on the way home from work I use this island and it gets rather busy.
Now people just sit there for ages, ignoring the fact that there is a filter lane on the right. Baffles and annoys me.
At least twice a week someone will swing right and block off both side of the roads when they see me coming, usually around where the yellow line ends. I often get swore at and a friendly fist shook at me because in their little heads I am pushing in-front of them.
What is it about British people and not understanding how a filter lane works?
They even understand them in America. (call them zip lanes IIRC?)
Gah. Morons.
You're wasting your time.
There are people on here, a motoring website, that can't get their tiny minds around how to use a merge point/filter lane properly and try to argue that you're wrong, so trying to convey that message to anyone not interested in driving is an absolute non-starter.
There are people on here, a motoring website, that can't get their tiny minds around how to use a merge point/filter lane properly and try to argue that you're wrong, so trying to convey that message to anyone not interested in driving is an absolute non-starter.
I was quite chocked recently to see that Stafford Council have actually done something to reduce congestion in the town - on one roundabout they have actually promoted the fact that there are two lanes and if we use both of them we'll stop blocking all the traffic behind that doesn't want to go to Sainsbury's.
Of course it's been entirely pointless, as if you use the outside lane to get out of the way you'll get some numpty at the end who doesn't want you to merge back in, it's great to watch people blow a gasket as you follow the Highway Code however - and the big enormous sign they've erected which says USE BOTH LANES.
Of course it's been entirely pointless, as if you use the outside lane to get out of the way you'll get some numpty at the end who doesn't want you to merge back in, it's great to watch people blow a gasket as you follow the Highway Code however - and the big enormous sign they've erected which says USE BOTH LANES.
Last night on the way home. The traffic wasn't as bad as usual but you can see my point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MblIuk7iNIg
I was clear of the Vauxhall and about to filter in front of him then instead of letting me go ahead of him his ego, probably egged on by his bleach blonde haired council estate Mrs, blocked me. I wasn't pushing in, I was following the format of the other two cars ahead, like a zip.
Toyota going behind the Nissan so I was going to go behind the Audi.
Usually you don't even get this far, someone tends to block you off. Ridiculous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MblIuk7iNIg
I was clear of the Vauxhall and about to filter in front of him then instead of letting me go ahead of him his ego, probably egged on by his bleach blonde haired council estate Mrs, blocked me. I wasn't pushing in, I was following the format of the other two cars ahead, like a zip.
Toyota going behind the Nissan so I was going to go behind the Audi.
Usually you don't even get this far, someone tends to block you off. Ridiculous.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff