BMW E39 or Volvo S60?
Discussion
I have owned an S60 D5 for about 4 years and I am thinking of changing it either for the V70 D5 or going for an E36 330D. Touch wood the Volvo has been great and only needed service items. I would love to have the T5 or the R but I think the fuel bills would annoy even though I only cover about 20K a year.
A few points
Turning circle is awful, multi story spirals can be interesting
Handbrake is fragile
Some interior trim is a bit crap
Intercoolers fail very easily, a re-map will split a tired one.
Later cars are not as good
Clutches (D5) will fall apart if you re-map and start doing daft things, they're not cheap.
But;
Amazing economy IME, I average a genuine 45-47mpg with a mixture of short commutes and Mway.
Seats are brilliant
Interior is generally very well put together
Stereo (pro-logic) is as good as anything I have heard in a standard car
Mine is heading towards 200K, it still feels like it did when I purchased it at 125K
They are also completely invisible to everyone, nobody cares about them
A few points
Turning circle is awful, multi story spirals can be interesting
Handbrake is fragile
Some interior trim is a bit crap
Intercoolers fail very easily, a re-map will split a tired one.
Later cars are not as good
Clutches (D5) will fall apart if you re-map and start doing daft things, they're not cheap.
But;
Amazing economy IME, I average a genuine 45-47mpg with a mixture of short commutes and Mway.
Seats are brilliant
Interior is generally very well put together
Stereo (pro-logic) is as good as anything I have heard in a standard car
Mine is heading towards 200K, it still feels like it did when I purchased it at 125K
They are also completely invisible to everyone, nobody cares about them
randomman said:
One word - RICA - A volvo specialist tuning company, buy a well look after model and you can take your:
2.0t from 180 to 220bhp
2.4t from 200 to 235bhp (bucket load more torque than the 2.0t though)
T5 from 250 to 310bhp
All for circa £450
I had the RICA map on my 2.3 T5. Very aggressive map which was huge fun but it created no end of problems with boost controller failures, seals etc. Their customer service out of Sweden was abysmal too. Despite a lot of happy customers their UK dealer network dwindled due to similar frustrations in day-to-day dealings.2.0t from 180 to 220bhp
2.4t from 200 to 235bhp (bucket load more torque than the 2.0t though)
T5 from 250 to 310bhp
All for circa £450
MTE on the other hand, via Kalmar Union, were exemplary.
HORA - have a drive in the S60 and make your own mind up about the steering as the subject is so subjective. For me it was the biggest drawback with the two I had. You might also find that the performance doesnt feel as strong as the published figures on the (stock) 2.3 T5 as the peak power is half way up the rev range, which is why I recommend the 2.4 instead - its got tons more grunt from the off.
kpb said:
randomman said:
One word - RICA - A volvo specialist tuning company, buy a well look after model and you can take your:
2.0t from 180 to 220bhp
2.4t from 200 to 235bhp (bucket load more torque than the 2.0t though)
T5 from 250 to 310bhp
All for circa £450
I had the RICA map on my 2.3 T5. Very aggressive map which was huge fun but it created no end of problems with boost controller failures, seals etc. Their customer service out of Sweden was abysmal too. Despite a lot of happy customers their UK dealer network dwindled due to similar frustrations in day-to-day dealings.2.0t from 180 to 220bhp
2.4t from 200 to 235bhp (bucket load more torque than the 2.0t though)
T5 from 250 to 310bhp
All for circa £450
MTE on the other hand, via Kalmar Union, were exemplary.
HORA - have a drive in the S60 and make your own mind up about the steering as the subject is so subjective. For me it was the biggest drawback with the two I had. You might also find that the performance doesnt feel as strong as the published figures on the (stock) 2.3 T5 as the peak power is half way up the rev range, which is why I recommend the 2.4 instead - its got tons more grunt from the off.
I tried both and went for MTE in my 850 T5...much more progressive map..tbh it felt like a larger CC N/A than a Remapped Turbo.
The MTE was much more drivable than the RICA especially on wet roads.
I haven't fitted them but when the bushes in the front arms were knackered in mine I planned to fit the old arms with a powerflex front and IIRC a Volvo rear as Powerflex didn't make one..or it was too stiff I cant remember exactly. This along with a different ARB is said to greatly improve things and is not that expensive. Infact I think I will order the bushes and look at doing it over winter.
I'm surprised Honda has popped up in this thread in relation to unbearable steering fell.
I have the previous generation Accord Tourer, a 2005 car and the feel and road-holding is incredibly good.
In fact Hora, it's one I'd recommend you consider.
I think it's one of the best cars I have owned; the 2.4 iVtec is a wonderful revvy engine (upto 9k rpm) but if you don't redline it all the time you easily get high 30's mpg.
It has all the kit (heated leather, great satnav, dual climate, cruise control, 6 CD, steering wheel controls, rain sensors, tiptronic box, HID lights, ABS traction control, sunroof, cargo nets, remote opening tailgate).
It has a very clever folding mechanism for the rear seats - just unlock and lower the back and the base and the headrests automatically fold away to give a flat load area.
They look a bit bland in standard trim but the sporty ones like my Exec and the R model have nice OEM body kits and large Penta graphite coloured alloys.
I have the previous generation Accord Tourer, a 2005 car and the feel and road-holding is incredibly good.
In fact Hora, it's one I'd recommend you consider.
I think it's one of the best cars I have owned; the 2.4 iVtec is a wonderful revvy engine (upto 9k rpm) but if you don't redline it all the time you easily get high 30's mpg.
It has all the kit (heated leather, great satnav, dual climate, cruise control, 6 CD, steering wheel controls, rain sensors, tiptronic box, HID lights, ABS traction control, sunroof, cargo nets, remote opening tailgate).
It has a very clever folding mechanism for the rear seats - just unlock and lower the back and the base and the headrests automatically fold away to give a flat load area.
They look a bit bland in standard trim but the sporty ones like my Exec and the R model have nice OEM body kits and large Penta graphite coloured alloys.
Kentish said:
I'm surprised Honda has popped up in this thread in relation to unbearable steering fell.
I have the previous generation Accord Tourer, a 2005 car and the feel and road-holding is incredibly good.
In fact Hora, it's one I'd recommend you consider.
I think it's one of the best cars I have owned; the 2.4 iVtec is a wonderful revvy engine (upto 9k rpm) but if you don't redline it all the time you easily get high 30's mpg.
It has all the kit (heated leather, great satnav, dual climate, cruise control, 6 CD, steering wheel controls, rain sensors, tiptronic box, HID lights, ABS traction control, sunroof, cargo nets, remote opening tailgate).
It has a very clever folding mechanism for the rear seats - just unlock and lower the back and the base and the headrests automatically fold away to give a flat load area.
They look a bit bland in standard trim but the sporty ones like my Exec and the R model have nice OEM body kits and large Penta graphite coloured alloys.
lovely cars I have the previous generation Accord Tourer, a 2005 car and the feel and road-holding is incredibly good.
In fact Hora, it's one I'd recommend you consider.
I think it's one of the best cars I have owned; the 2.4 iVtec is a wonderful revvy engine (upto 9k rpm) but if you don't redline it all the time you easily get high 30's mpg.
It has all the kit (heated leather, great satnav, dual climate, cruise control, 6 CD, steering wheel controls, rain sensors, tiptronic box, HID lights, ABS traction control, sunroof, cargo nets, remote opening tailgate).
It has a very clever folding mechanism for the rear seats - just unlock and lower the back and the base and the headrests automatically fold away to give a flat load area.
They look a bit bland in standard trim but the sporty ones like my Exec and the R model have nice OEM body kits and large Penta graphite coloured alloys.
I drove the Type R and liked it but felt it lacked the punch of the turbo Swedes, esp for swift and safe overtaking.
Saying that they are great cars though, Hora definitely get a drive in one if you can...see what you think of it.
hora said:
I'll have a drive in one. The issue is I've never been a tyre-kicker. If I've gone to a dealer and drove a car its because I was actively considering 'one.
I'm just undecided on the Accord. Its from my experience of driving various Civic's (including the Type R).
Hunt out something like a facelift model 530i manual too, a Sport if possible and have a drive of that. Topaz Blue with grey leather perhaps. I'm sure you'll be hooked I'm just undecided on the Accord. Its from my experience of driving various Civic's (including the Type R).
I'm not detracting anything from the Volvo, I think the S60 is a superb car. But BMW to Volvo really is like comparing apples with pears.
y2blade said:
Fartgalen said:
Hah hah - Volvo fanbois unite 
I've had plenty of cars from other manufacturers in my time but always end up back at Volvo for the complete package. The only Volvo car which did not hit the mark with me was the new C70 which was a very stressful drive having completely numb steering, slow performance, narrow hard seating, and rattles & squeaks all over. It was such a shambles I got rid after only 3 months from new. Now I'm in an S60R my faith has been restored that they can produce some seriously good cars if they want to.
The things I like about BMW are the automatic transmission which is quick and responsive, the RWD fun factor and sharp steering. What I don't like are the seats and the offset pedal layout (can't BMW do RHD conversions properly?!) and the stale interiors.
Edited by RevolveR on Thursday 11th October 23:15
I am fortunate enough to own a late model 530i sport manual. It is a fantastic car IMO however you need a treasure chest and faults make themselves known very quickly to you.
Having driven an S80 D5 (i know you want an S60) for around 3 months, i found it comfy and i loved sinking into the background, but i never wanted to drive it just for the sake of driving it, sound system was fab though!
Having driven an S80 D5 (i know you want an S60) for around 3 months, i found it comfy and i loved sinking into the background, but i never wanted to drive it just for the sake of driving it, sound system was fab though!
hora said:
On the steering- how bad is it? I don't mind slightly numb but not electric' Honda levels of numb!
It is very assisted. The wheel feels very, very light in your hands when you're steering. Not that that is a bad thing when you're parking, mind. Turn in is a little slow; response from the wheel could be a little sharper at the top end but it's not a sloppy handler by any means. You need to really lay it on thick with the throttle, keeping the wheels biting down to the road, and it will surprise you with it's agility. Even my 2.0T was a great handler and very quick down B roads because you had absolutely confidence in the handling. Someone mentioned the extremely long clutch travel in the S60. Yep, it's huge. The pedals all feel 'soft' and effortless to use, which suits some but some find it feels 'disconnected' from the car. The throttles are about as laggy as you will find in a petrol car too. Even in my 2.0T, which had a smaller turbo for faster low end response, felt slow to react to throttle inputs. Downshifts would go 'depress clutch - move shifter to manual - lift clutch - stamp on throttle for what seems like ages - depress clutch - select gear - lift clutch'. Those blips! I owned an MX5 before getting my S60 and an MR2 Turbo immediately after and their super-sharp responses made the Volvo's throttle seem even slower. Not that this is something that matters to anyone other than a PH'er!
What more can be said about them? I'd have an E39 these days, if I had my time again. They are just a bit more 'me'. I prefer the slightly old-skool interior and looks. Both will make superb mile munchers.
Also, an A6 for similar cash would be worth looking into as another effortless mile-muncher.
I had an S60 T5 for a while, before I sold it to Mr. Synchromesh of this parish. I replaced it with an older 540i Touring (6-speed) and I don't regret it for a minute.
I think there's been remarkable consistency here with the opinions - the S60 was a car I could admire - styling, comfort, stereo, reliability. I never felt happy with the way it drove though, and didn't enjoy it anything like as much as other cars I've driven.
The e39 appears to have a depth of talents that it's going to take me a while to explore. I expect to spend the purchase price again in maintenance in the first year alone, but for some reason I don't mind that at all. It's a keeper, and the spending is an investment - I'm enjoying planning what to do next.
By contrast, in well over a year of Volvo ownership I couldn't work up the enthusiasm to upgrade or change any part of it - I never even polished it.
It might take more than a quick test drive to appreciate an e39, but in this instance I'd say the majority opinion is spot on - they're an excellent car.
I think there's been remarkable consistency here with the opinions - the S60 was a car I could admire - styling, comfort, stereo, reliability. I never felt happy with the way it drove though, and didn't enjoy it anything like as much as other cars I've driven.
The e39 appears to have a depth of talents that it's going to take me a while to explore. I expect to spend the purchase price again in maintenance in the first year alone, but for some reason I don't mind that at all. It's a keeper, and the spending is an investment - I'm enjoying planning what to do next.
By contrast, in well over a year of Volvo ownership I couldn't work up the enthusiasm to upgrade or change any part of it - I never even polished it.
It might take more than a quick test drive to appreciate an e39, but in this instance I'd say the majority opinion is spot on - they're an excellent car.
i would take the volvo
i have had 3 s60's.
first was a t5 petrol, ran it to 130,000 miles without any problems. i was amazed by how fast it was,(250bhp) the interior is much more modern than the e39,
i drove a 528 e39 and to me the ride was much firmer, the interior looked tacky and the back space in that was smaller than the s60- i was also concerned with all the service lights in the dashboard and concerns with the widely reported problems these cars can cause. My friend had a bmw 530 2002 model and he was always spending lots of money on the car just to make it roadworthy
the s60 has far better seats, dolby pro logic sound system is awesome, heated seats, i think the image of s60 is better too.
i then had a s60 disel which ran to 265,000 miles with just the usual suspension bushes parts replacing, alternator went, and 6 cd system broke
you can buy a far newer s60 than an old 5 series and to my eyes the e39 5 series looks old and dated and there are loads of sheds around. all mine were auto and never had an auto transmission failure.
if you do go s60 i would opt for the 18 inch spider wheels as they transform the look of the car and the back spoiler too.
i sold this car 6 months ago...........for.....£2000...it had 265,000 miles on it. i used to ask people to guess the mileage and value of the car , everyone thought it was an 80k car valued at 6k
i have had 3 s60's.
first was a t5 petrol, ran it to 130,000 miles without any problems. i was amazed by how fast it was,(250bhp) the interior is much more modern than the e39,
i drove a 528 e39 and to me the ride was much firmer, the interior looked tacky and the back space in that was smaller than the s60- i was also concerned with all the service lights in the dashboard and concerns with the widely reported problems these cars can cause. My friend had a bmw 530 2002 model and he was always spending lots of money on the car just to make it roadworthy
the s60 has far better seats, dolby pro logic sound system is awesome, heated seats, i think the image of s60 is better too.
i then had a s60 disel which ran to 265,000 miles with just the usual suspension bushes parts replacing, alternator went, and 6 cd system broke
you can buy a far newer s60 than an old 5 series and to my eyes the e39 5 series looks old and dated and there are loads of sheds around. all mine were auto and never had an auto transmission failure.
if you do go s60 i would opt for the 18 inch spider wheels as they transform the look of the car and the back spoiler too.
i sold this car 6 months ago...........for.....£2000...it had 265,000 miles on it. i used to ask people to guess the mileage and value of the car , everyone thought it was an 80k car valued at 6k
Edited by K321 on Friday 12th October 01:07
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff