RE: Focus RS - the next generation
Discussion
TobyLaRohne said:
I didn't say copy it, I said take the fight to them, a 3 door, 4wd, 350bhp focus would do exactly that I think.
Except that it wouldn't, because it would cost at least as much or possibly more, but with a lower quality interior and a mass market badge vs. a premium badge. It would also be developed on a platform that wasn't designed for 4wd, so making more compromises than one that was always designed to be 4wd from the start. RenesisEvo said:
TobyLaRohne said:
They (ford) are cheap, mazda and volvo developed 4wd for the same floorpan
I always thought the 6 MPS and S60R shared the Mondeo platform, not the Focus one. Can someone point me to a reliable source?I am afraid I am out of date with the current focus and wether it shares the floorpan with any other cars...but there is no reason why they cant share the development cost with volvo and mazda again for the next generation focus etc etc
stuart-b said:
I believe the Escort lost RWD after the mark 2. Mark 3 onwards were FWD. They managed to make an Escort RS that started life as FWD, why not do it again? Cost.
Much easier to make significant alterations to a car back then. Now you would have to rehomolgate it and re-cash test it which is VERY expensive for a small run of cars. Remember the Escort Cossie was based on a Sierra floorpan and had a different engine orientation. Doing that these days would be incredibly hard with all of the regulations.Here's a question for all you power junkies out there. My old TVR had 350bhp, RWD and weight just over a tonne. The only time I could apply pedal-to-the-metal was on a dry motorway/dual carriageway. How often do you really expect to try and deploy all 350bhp in first gear? If I buy one of these (and I'm really thinking about it) I can't think of any situation outside of a multi-lane road where I'd be able to deploy all 350bhp even if it had 10wd.
scoobyp1 said:
Really ??? 5 doors and FWD ? What numpty thought this was a good idea...
Surely the feedback from the last RS would tell Ford that they need to go RWD or 4WD.
So you want them to go head to head with the Audi RS3. Good luck with your 40k Focus...Surely the feedback from the last RS would tell Ford that they need to go RWD or 4WD.
How much were the Mk2's brand new? ~£24k IIRC, at almost three years old they are still ~19-20k with 30k miles.
They aren't doing bad.
TobyLaRohne said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C1_platform
I am afraid I am out of date with the current focus and wether it shares the floorpan with any other cars...but there is no reason why they cant share the development cost with volvo and mazda again for the next generation focus etc etc
Except that Volvo is no longer owned by Ford, so could have quite different needs for the next chassis? Ford now only owns about 3% of Mazda and they don't develop stuff in parallel anymore. I am afraid I am out of date with the current focus and wether it shares the floorpan with any other cars...but there is no reason why they cant share the development cost with volvo and mazda again for the next generation focus etc etc
I think the new Focus in 5 door is so astonishingly hideous Ford can keep it.
Hopefully the new RS, looking like projectile vomit flash frozen in motion, will do little more than depreciate the Mk2 enough that poor old me can afford one.
5 cylinder engine with epic torque and amazing sound. Check.
3 door body that looks correctly proportioned. Check.
Great to drive. Check.
Just dont see the need for the new one if it's going to lose most of that/\
Regarding the 4wd and RWD debate - IIRC, wasnt the Escort Cosworth about £35k when new in 1994ish?
That'd be about £50k in todays money. Who in their right mind would pay that for Focus? A Focus!
But that's just scatching the surface - the Escort Cosworth wasn't an Escort at all was it? The engine, chassis, running gear, everything was from a Sierra Cosworth, Ford just shortened it all and fitted a mk5 Escort body shell on it. Even the shell wasnt fully Escort. In fact, most of the shell was unique to the point only the doors (2 of them), roof and tailgate were original.
If you wanted to make the Focus of now RWD as some one mentioned you would ideally need to turn the engine round in order to run a prop shaft to the rear and fit a diff at the back with it all in there, again, you lose fuel tank space and add weight to the back end.
And here's the killer. This is 2012. Ford are a family business. Back in the 1980's when the Sierra Cosworth first came to life Ford told Cosworth to tone it down a bit "it's a family car, we cant have it doing that" they said.
Could you imagine if Ford made a Focus RWD and gave it 350bhp?
Daddy Cool would be "Daddy wrapped around a lamp post" before he gets his new car home from the dealership!
If you want a £50k RWD superperformance car with back seats and a boot, get a 1M Coupe.
Any way, have Subaru gone bust yet? Havent seen one of the new monstrositied for years.
Hopefully the new RS, looking like projectile vomit flash frozen in motion, will do little more than depreciate the Mk2 enough that poor old me can afford one.
5 cylinder engine with epic torque and amazing sound. Check.
3 door body that looks correctly proportioned. Check.
Great to drive. Check.
Just dont see the need for the new one if it's going to lose most of that/\
Regarding the 4wd and RWD debate - IIRC, wasnt the Escort Cosworth about £35k when new in 1994ish?
That'd be about £50k in todays money. Who in their right mind would pay that for Focus? A Focus!
But that's just scatching the surface - the Escort Cosworth wasn't an Escort at all was it? The engine, chassis, running gear, everything was from a Sierra Cosworth, Ford just shortened it all and fitted a mk5 Escort body shell on it. Even the shell wasnt fully Escort. In fact, most of the shell was unique to the point only the doors (2 of them), roof and tailgate were original.
If you wanted to make the Focus of now RWD as some one mentioned you would ideally need to turn the engine round in order to run a prop shaft to the rear and fit a diff at the back with it all in there, again, you lose fuel tank space and add weight to the back end.
And here's the killer. This is 2012. Ford are a family business. Back in the 1980's when the Sierra Cosworth first came to life Ford told Cosworth to tone it down a bit "it's a family car, we cant have it doing that" they said.
Could you imagine if Ford made a Focus RWD and gave it 350bhp?
Daddy Cool would be "Daddy wrapped around a lamp post" before he gets his new car home from the dealership!
If you want a £50k RWD superperformance car with back seats and a boot, get a 1M Coupe.
Any way, have Subaru gone bust yet? Havent seen one of the new monstrositied for years.
dino ferrana said:
TobyLaRohne said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C1_platform
I am afraid I am out of date with the current focus and wether it shares the floorpan with any other cars...but there is no reason why they cant share the development cost with volvo and mazda again for the next generation focus etc etc
Except that Volvo is no longer owned by Ford, so could have quite different needs for the next chassis? Ford now only owns about 3% of Mazda and they don't develop stuff in parallel anymore. I am afraid I am out of date with the current focus and wether it shares the floorpan with any other cars...but there is no reason why they cant share the development cost with volvo and mazda again for the next generation focus etc etc
said:
Four-wheel drive is also a possibility, but its use is hampered by the fact that the 4WD systems available within Ford are all the front-wheel biased Haldex type. "It's inherently an understeering system," Urwin said. "We would need to do something we could make fun to drive
I dont get that. Are Ford saying that their engineers are unable to make an awd car fun? Plenty others are.The veyron uses haldex afterall with a bias to the rear. Sureley Ford could do the same.
350bhp as stated is crazy power to the front. But then Ford are cheap and lets face it being fwd over awd is all about saving money. I wonder if they will be able to colour match the bumpers to the bodywork this time...
Luca Brasi said:
What is with this current obsession with 5 doors only? First the new Clio Sport, now this. Is it just cost cutting? And the current 5 Focus is so unbelievably ugly, I wonder what it 'll look like in RS trim.
Years ago lots of people bought the normal cars in 3-door form, but that has pretty much died out and most of the shopping models are sold as 5-door. The number of 3-door cars was going down rapidly, so it wasn't worth Ford or Renault developing new 3-door body shapes and it is easier to tool a factory up to make just one body style. I imagine the 3-door hatch could almost die out in the next few years, but we shall see.SonicHedgeHog said:
Here's a question for all you power junkies out there. My old TVR had 350bhp, RWD and weight just over a tonne. The only time I could apply pedal-to-the-metal was on a dry motorway/dual carriageway. How often do you really expect to try and deploy all 350bhp in first gear? If I buy one of these (and I'm really thinking about it) I can't think of any situation outside of a multi-lane road where I'd be able to deploy all 350bhp even if it had 10wd.
Really? I applied all of mine about 12 times this morning on my 30 min B road commute.Can't ford just package the engine so both drive shafts are the same length, thus making t/s a lot less of a problem?
MintyChris said:
I dont get that. Are Ford saying that their engineers are unable to make an awd car fun? Plenty others are.
The veyron uses haldex afterall with a bias to the rear. Sureley Ford could do the same.
350bhp as stated is crazy power to the front. But then Ford are cheap and lets face it being fwd over awd is all about saving money. I wonder if they will be able to colour match the bumpers to the bodywork this time...
It isn't all about cost, it would also mean a smaller fuel tank, less interior space and worse CO2 figures. The last one was 225 g/km, which was deliberately done so it could sneak out of the VERY heavy tax hike you get at that level all over Europe. If it had been 4wd then it would have been higher without a doubt and therefore basically out of reach of a lot more people. The veyron uses haldex afterall with a bias to the rear. Sureley Ford could do the same.
350bhp as stated is crazy power to the front. But then Ford are cheap and lets face it being fwd over awd is all about saving money. I wonder if they will be able to colour match the bumpers to the bodywork this time...
Sure cost comes into it, but we aren't talking about a small increase to put in 4wd and it certaily is not all benefits and no downsides. Extra weight means more to stop, more to turn and more to accelerate, plus a smaller boot, smaller fuel tank etc.
Luca Brasi said:
What is with this current obsession with 5 doors only? First the new Clio Sport, now this. Is it just cost cutting? And the current 5 Focus is so unbelievably ugly, I wonder what it 'll look like in RS trim.
Cost + practicality. If in the previous gen the 5 door is the big seller, reduce costs by not making a three door.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff