RE: DVLA in 'cutting red tape' shocker
Discussion
Alex said:
Even better: scrap the licence altogether and replace with a small levy on fuel.
They can't do that, they've already got a HUGE levy on fuel, quite a few actually, and in some cases we're paying a levy on a levy. So they already take enough at the pumps to cover ditching it now!Ozzie Osmond said:
Brilliant. So now if the database isn't fully up-to-date you won't be able to tax your car at all - well known problem for people whose tax and insurance run out at the end of the same month. Which funnily enough they often do, because when you bought the car the previous year you taxed and insured it on the same day.
I could be wrong, but my reading of the story was that they won't bother checking for insurance at all when you're paying for your tax.My interpretation was that they've finally realised there's no point in having that one-off check for insurance when the police and DVLA routinely use their databases to check for insurance anyway.
IanJ9375 said:
Why not go the whole hog and remove the need to display a disc at all?
Even less red tape and just have a db such as the askmid site to confirm a licence is in place?
Do you trust a government agency to do that? I'm sure I'm not the only person in the country that has been stopped by a traffic officer, who then looked at my windscreen and said "Oh, you have a tax disc. According to the computer, you don't..." before making up some other feeble excuse about why I was stopped.Even less red tape and just have a db such as the askmid site to confirm a licence is in place?
I'll keep the little disc on the screen, for my own peace of mind thank-you.
scholesy said:
Mermaid said:
Alex said:
Even better: scrap the licence altogether and replace with a small levy on fuel.
Too sensible 
So basically the only people that will pay are the ones that commute. Pretty bad idea overall.
Look at how expensive and complicated train tickets are, for example. Logically you should just have four tickets - a combination of peak and off-peak, and single and return, with costs based on a combination of distance and time. A return should cost the same as two singles, and so on. German railways work like this and they're efficiency itself.
But I can imagine an absolute nightmare unfolding if the government decided that people who travel at peak time should pay more, which they inevitably would. I suppose you could argue that stop-start traffic uses more fuel per mile than going down an open road, which would see people paying accordingly, but I suspect it's not complicated or controlling enough for a politician to allow.
A very quick google suggests that £6b is raised by VED each year, and that we use approx 50b litres of fuel per year.
So a 1p levy on fuel would only raise £50m so quite a shortfall.
To break even it would need to be a 12p levy, which I imagine any politician would struggle to justify to the public
So a 1p levy on fuel would only raise £50m so quite a shortfall.
To break even it would need to be a 12p levy, which I imagine any politician would struggle to justify to the public
mitch78 said:
They can't do that, they've already got a HUGE levy on fuel, quite a few actually, and in some cases we're paying a levy on a levy. So they already take enough at the pumps to cover ditching it now!
Having an already HUGE (your caps) levy on fuel doesn't preclude them adding another one to cover Road Tax...If you cover 12000 miles per anum (the average in the UK, apparantly) and you take 30mpg as an average, reasonble, real-world fuel consumption, then you use 400 gals of fuel per anum...
To recover £400 in lost road tax per vehicle (to account for some cars that will be less used) you need to charge 1p per gallon...or roughly 0.25p per litre...
Considering the price of fuel is circa £1.40 per litre, adding 0.25p isn't going to be even noticeable and even if it is 1p per litre, how many people would notice that?
CoolC said:
A very quick google suggests that £6b is raised by VED each year, and that we use approx 50b litres of fuel per year.
So a 1p levy on fuel would only raise £50m so quite a shortfall.
To break even it would need to be a 12p levy, which I imagine any politician would struggle to justify to the public
And that would cost me an extra £3.52/week (£183.04/year) instead of £30/year currently.So a 1p levy on fuel would only raise £50m so quite a shortfall.
To break even it would need to be a 12p levy, which I imagine any politician would struggle to justify to the public
Admittidly, thats not a tradegy but it got me thinking, what about the fuel i use in the track car? most of the miles it does are 'off-road', but i would still have to pay VED on the fuel?
fushion julz said:
Having an already HUGE (your caps) levy on fuel doesn't preclude them adding another one to cover Road Tax...
If you cover 12000 miles per anum (the average in the UK, apparantly) and you take 30mpg as an average, reasonble, real-world fuel consumption, then you use 400 gals of fuel per anum...
To recover £400 in lost road tax per vehicle (to account for some cars that will be less used) you need to charge 1p per gallon...or roughly 0.25p per litre...
Considering the price of fuel is circa £1.40 per litre, adding 0.25p isn't going to be even noticeable and even if it is 1p per litre, how many people would notice that?
1p per gallon for 400 gallons is only £4! not £400!If you cover 12000 miles per anum (the average in the UK, apparantly) and you take 30mpg as an average, reasonble, real-world fuel consumption, then you use 400 gals of fuel per anum...
To recover £400 in lost road tax per vehicle (to account for some cars that will be less used) you need to charge 1p per gallon...or roughly 0.25p per litre...
Considering the price of fuel is circa £1.40 per litre, adding 0.25p isn't going to be even noticeable and even if it is 1p per litre, how many people would notice that?
The figures above of £6B and 50B litres is a better approach. The massive benefit of doing it that way, is the road users are paying the road tax, and this will include foreign travellers and haulage filling up in this country.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Brilliant. So now if the database isn't fully up-to-date you won't be able to tax your car at all - well known problem for people whose tax and insurance run out at the end of the same month. Which funnily enough they often do, because when you bought the car the previous year you taxed and insured it on the same day.
Exactly this. Mine run out at the same so this year when I went she checked online and couldn't find my insurance details. I had a printed copy which after a bit of scrutinising was allowed.Does this mean that the post office I went to was trialling this system?
Paying a levy as you fill up would also help spread the pain a lot. I paid £460 at the weekend for my licence and it certainly felt painful.
What is also ridiculous is the amount they charge for a 6 month disc. You could view it as an implied finance charge, except they aren't actually financing anything.
I'd best stop before this post turns in to something more suited to the mail online!
What is also ridiculous is the amount they charge for a 6 month disc. You could view it as an implied finance charge, except they aren't actually financing anything.
I'd best stop before this post turns in to something more suited to the mail online!
Edited by SmartVenom on Monday 15th October 12:13
On a different slant, can I take issue with the headline "DVLA in 'cutting red tale' shocker"?
That turn of phrase is usually used sarcastically to highlight something a person, organisation or body is well known for. Ie their normal negative behaviour rather than in this case, something that would be opposite to their norm and actually beneficial.
Bert
That turn of phrase is usually used sarcastically to highlight something a person, organisation or body is well known for. Ie their normal negative behaviour rather than in this case, something that would be opposite to their norm and actually beneficial.
Bert
williredale said:
Exactly this. Mine run out at the same so this year when I went she checked online and couldn't find my insurance details. I had a printed copy which after a bit of scrutinising was allowed.
Does this mean that the post office I went to was trialling this system?
The proposal is to scrap the check, not move from paper to checking the MID.Does this mean that the post office I went to was trialling this system?
MrTickle said:
1p per gallon for 400 gallons is only £4! not £400!
The figures above of £6B and 50B litres is a better approach. The massive benefit of doing it that way, is the road users are paying the road tax, and this will include foreign travellers and haulage filling up in this country.
Glad someone can count, using the original message it would have been 22p extra/L!The figures above of £6B and 50B litres is a better approach. The massive benefit of doing it that way, is the road users are paying the road tax, and this will include foreign travellers and haulage filling up in this country.
mitch78 said:
Alex said:
Even better: scrap the licence altogether and replace with a small levy on fuel.
They can't do that, they've already got a HUGE levy on fuel, quite a few actually, and in some cases we're paying a levy on a levy.Besides, AFAIK, the Irish already tried this, then decided they wanted an annual check on paperwork, imposed a fee to pay for it, so they ended up with a levy on fuel and an annual fee. Which then went up regularly until it was the same as the previous tax disk.
Edited by Zumbruk on Monday 15th October 12:12
bulldog5046 said:
…it got me thinking, what about the fuel i use in the track car? most of the miles it does are 'off-road', but i would still have to pay VED on the fuel?
Yes, in that instance you'd be paying 'more than your fair share', but you couldn't object to that while supporting the current system of a 3k mile/yr driver paying the same as a 12k mile/yr driver. No system is going to be perfect, but shifting VED onto fuel is easily the closest we have to a fair solution for generating that revenue:Taxation proportional to usage
Impossible to evade payment or forget to renew
No need for expensive administration or enforcement
Took me 3 attempts (3 seperate weekends) to sort out my tax.
Post office closes at noon and is a good few miles away from me. I work away from home during the week so the weekend is the only time I can get a chance to do this.
1st Weekend: I took the schedule of insurance instead of the certifcate. Only difference I could see was it said schedule and not certificate.
2nd Weekend. MOT didn't have enough time left on it. Apparently it needs 5+ days.
3rd weekend. New MOT, brought insurance certifcate and had renewal in hand. Renewal not able to be used as it was now 14+ days after the tax was due - i seriously doubted this. Zoomed back and picked up V5 and made it back to PO with minutes to spare.
So any change to make it easier is very welcome.
Post office closes at noon and is a good few miles away from me. I work away from home during the week so the weekend is the only time I can get a chance to do this.
1st Weekend: I took the schedule of insurance instead of the certifcate. Only difference I could see was it said schedule and not certificate.
2nd Weekend. MOT didn't have enough time left on it. Apparently it needs 5+ days.
3rd weekend. New MOT, brought insurance certifcate and had renewal in hand. Renewal not able to be used as it was now 14+ days after the tax was due - i seriously doubted this. Zoomed back and picked up V5 and made it back to PO with minutes to spare.
So any change to make it easier is very welcome.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Brilliant. So now if the database isn't fully up-to-date you won't be able to tax your car at all - well known problem for people whose tax and insurance run out at the end of the same month. Which funnily enough they often do, because when you bought the car the previous year you taxed and insured it on the same day.
This has caused me a real problem: I bought a car mid month which needed tax. new tax runs from the beginning of the month, but my insurance ran from the day of purchase, puting them about a week apart. When I went to renew the tax the following year, they wouldn't let me tax it because "I didn't have enough insurance left" (ie about a week from renewal)!!I had to wait until I had my new policy in place, before I could tax the car, even though the car had perfectly valid insurance
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