RE: DVLA in 'cutting red tape' shocker
Discussion
Alex said:
k-ink said:
Even better: add third party insurance on top of fuel duty too. That way no one escapes. No more losses of tax revenue through the unwashed dodgers. No more thousands of workers paid to move pointless paper around their desks. But hold on. That would save too many billions of pounds and be far too easy wouldn't it.
Nice idea, but doesn't take into account risk profile.
More yobbos on the roadsAlex said:
IanJ9375 said:
Why not go the whole hog and remove the need to display a disc at all?
Even less red tape and just have a db such as the askmid site to confirm a licence is in place?
Even better: scrap the licence altogether and replace with a small levy on fuel.Even less red tape and just have a db such as the askmid site to confirm a licence is in place?
Much savings on jobs in Swansea and much enviornmental and energy bills savings in switching off lots of computers and networks.
And no overhead having DVLA people beside the road with cameras on tripods.
Road tax evasion fails to be a problem as there would be no road tax to evade.
Fuel tax is the way forward as far as I'm concerned for private cars. Not so sure about haulage firms though. This would give an increase in logistic costs for ALL commodoties. Maybe a blue diesel could be used for commercial vehicles (inc psv) with a reduced tax rate, similar to the red diesel we currently have for agricultural, marine etc.
Not sure if the maths is accurate though:
Anticiapted fuel sales 34billion litres ( source £16.7billion for first half of this year)
V.E.D. nett income £5.7billion ( source )
Collection required is therefore 16.8p/litre (rounded up) or about £10/tank (assuming 60L tank).
Assuming that VAT isn't added on the levy!!
As above, the problem with this model is the huge cost to haulage firms, taking them out of the equation will severly increase our contribution.
Not sure if the maths is accurate though:
Anticiapted fuel sales 34billion litres ( source £16.7billion for first half of this year)
V.E.D. nett income £5.7billion ( source )
Collection required is therefore 16.8p/litre (rounded up) or about £10/tank (assuming 60L tank).
Assuming that VAT isn't added on the levy!!
As above, the problem with this model is the huge cost to haulage firms, taking them out of the equation will severly increase our contribution.
4key said:
I still dont understand the point of having to stick one peice of paper to your windscreen, surely it should be all three or none.
+ 1. I actually think that all should be done at once in a Driving Certificate. The certificate will be you Car tax, Insurance and MOT. This will stop anyone who has one but not the other.It won't be anybetter cost wise, but it will feel like it as it is one Payment a year, instead of 3. Also insurance needs to be regualted more, but that is OT.
DaveH23 said:
onyx39 said:
Alex said:
IanJ9375 said:
Why not go the whole hog and remove the need to display a disc at all?
Even less red tape and just have a db such as the askmid site to confirm a licence is in place?
Even better: scrap the licence altogether and replace with a small levy on fuel.Even less red tape and just have a db such as the askmid site to confirm a licence is in place?
been saying this for years!
It's a good move. I usually try to remember to renew by phone which is uses the DB and is very easy, but hate it when I forget and have to produce docs at the Post Office.
With my old RX-8, the phone method seemed marginally less painful than writing a cheque for £460 (I think it was) for the annual ticket at the Post Office. It always annoyed me that the car was seriously double taxed on Road Fund and then on Petrol Duty - It's an old, old story though.
I think I'd miss the tax disk if it disappeared altogether though - it instantly shows up rogue drivers - not just to the police and people looking at the db but anyone. When you see a suspected abandoned or dodgy car a quick look at the tax disk is a good indicator of it's legitimacy.
With my old RX-8, the phone method seemed marginally less painful than writing a cheque for £460 (I think it was) for the annual ticket at the Post Office. It always annoyed me that the car was seriously double taxed on Road Fund and then on Petrol Duty - It's an old, old story though.
I think I'd miss the tax disk if it disappeared altogether though - it instantly shows up rogue drivers - not just to the police and people looking at the db but anyone. When you see a suspected abandoned or dodgy car a quick look at the tax disk is a good indicator of it's legitimacy.
no effort said:
Well the government tax me for owning a TV can you believe that.
It's another discussion entirely...but no they don't.You could quite happily own a TV for DVDs, Blu-Rays, Video Games, Movies on Demand etc and not pay a penny for 'owning a TV'. You could then watch television programmes by means of catch-up services (as long as you're not watching live), of which there are loads of ways to access these days.
Simples.
storminnorman said:
IanJ9375 said:
Why not go the whole hog and remove the need to display a disc at all?
Even less red tape and just have a db such as the askmid site to confirm a licence is in place?
that would be too sensible, I think they've just used up their sensible quota for one year Even less red tape and just have a db such as the askmid site to confirm a licence is in place?
Decade at the very least
Dropping the VED would benefit those who do not have to already pay a fortune in fuel, but would shift the burden to commuters & businesses.
I would love to live nearer work, I really would. I could maybe afford to splash out on a LUXURY like a pistonheads car for my daily commute, but right now I am limited to a cheap tax oil burner to put the miles in due to the already high fuel costs. Why would I want to pay more tax each year so the business director (who lives round the corner from work) is £500 better off with his AMG Merc? Is it fair to penalise me for living further away from my work than someone else? Do I not already pay more in fuel (and time) for this misfortune?! How many people do you think actually want to travel the miles they do? I would say nearly all would like to reduce their commute in some way, but are forced to travel to earn a living.
I know this isn't fair in some viewers eyes, but I am more than happy to see luxury items (such as high performance cars) taxed at a higher rate. My weekend toy is a luxury, I am happy to be able to have it and use it, and I am happy to pay tax on it even though it doesn't move much each year.
If the VED was dropped, you would probably see less of a demand for efficient cars too. Kind of the opposite of what the government is trying to achieve, outlawing "gas guzzlers". Right now those that do big miles are hit with high fuel costs, so most choose efficient. If you do low miles, most still look for an efficient car due to the tax scheme.
I would love to live nearer work, I really would. I could maybe afford to splash out on a LUXURY like a pistonheads car for my daily commute, but right now I am limited to a cheap tax oil burner to put the miles in due to the already high fuel costs. Why would I want to pay more tax each year so the business director (who lives round the corner from work) is £500 better off with his AMG Merc? Is it fair to penalise me for living further away from my work than someone else? Do I not already pay more in fuel (and time) for this misfortune?! How many people do you think actually want to travel the miles they do? I would say nearly all would like to reduce their commute in some way, but are forced to travel to earn a living.
I know this isn't fair in some viewers eyes, but I am more than happy to see luxury items (such as high performance cars) taxed at a higher rate. My weekend toy is a luxury, I am happy to be able to have it and use it, and I am happy to pay tax on it even though it doesn't move much each year.
If the VED was dropped, you would probably see less of a demand for efficient cars too. Kind of the opposite of what the government is trying to achieve, outlawing "gas guzzlers". Right now those that do big miles are hit with high fuel costs, so most choose efficient. If you do low miles, most still look for an efficient car due to the tax scheme.
My solution:
For new vehicles, replace VED with a New Vehicle Duty - applied *after* VAT, and based on CO2 emissions.
This would be a one-off tax payable by those who can most afford it - the people/companies who buy new vehicles.
Freeze VED for existing vehicles and set up a rolling 20 year exemption for older & historic vehicles. eg. most 1992 cars would now be VED-exempt.
By late 2032, VED would be dead and buried.
Replace the tax disc with a similar-looking MOT disc, issued by Testing Stations along with the test certificate. (Existing cars would display both VED and MOT discs until they're 20 years old.)
Fuel prices don't have to go up at all, but...
Abolish red diesel! Use the additional revenue to fund British Waterways and other nautical facilities.
And use the extra that farmers pay to improve our rural roads (and clean up the filth that tractors leave behind!)
Yes, food prices might increase a little, but that's no bad thing if it makes people less wasteful of food.
Just think, a fair, revenue-neutral, system that would save the country money in administration and enforcement, and reduce queues and hassle in Post Offices all over the land.
The New Vehicle Tax could also be applied to alternative-fueled cars in the future, solving the revenue problem in the long term.
And no more p1keys and dodgy taxi drivers running about on red diesel either!
For new vehicles, replace VED with a New Vehicle Duty - applied *after* VAT, and based on CO2 emissions.
This would be a one-off tax payable by those who can most afford it - the people/companies who buy new vehicles.
Freeze VED for existing vehicles and set up a rolling 20 year exemption for older & historic vehicles. eg. most 1992 cars would now be VED-exempt.
By late 2032, VED would be dead and buried.
Replace the tax disc with a similar-looking MOT disc, issued by Testing Stations along with the test certificate. (Existing cars would display both VED and MOT discs until they're 20 years old.)
Fuel prices don't have to go up at all, but...
Abolish red diesel! Use the additional revenue to fund British Waterways and other nautical facilities.
And use the extra that farmers pay to improve our rural roads (and clean up the filth that tractors leave behind!)
Yes, food prices might increase a little, but that's no bad thing if it makes people less wasteful of food.
Just think, a fair, revenue-neutral, system that would save the country money in administration and enforcement, and reduce queues and hassle in Post Offices all over the land.
The New Vehicle Tax could also be applied to alternative-fueled cars in the future, solving the revenue problem in the long term.
And no more p1keys and dodgy taxi drivers running about on red diesel either!
GH80 said:
I would love to live nearer work, I really would. I could maybe afford to splash out on a LUXURY like a pistonheads car for my daily commute, but right now I am limited to a cheap tax oil burner to put the miles in due to the already high fuel costs. Why would I want to pay more tax each year so the business director (who lives round the corner from work) is £500 better off with his AMG Merc? Is it fair to penalise me for living further away from my work than someone else? Do I not already pay more in fuel (and time) for this misfortune?! How many people do you think actually want to travel the miles they do? I would say nearly all would like to reduce their commute in some way, but are forced to travel to earn a living.
If the VED was dropped, you would probably see less of a demand for efficient cars too. Kind of the opposite of what the government is trying to achieve, outlawing "gas guzzlers". Right now those that do big miles are hit with high fuel costs, so most choose efficient. If you do low miles, most still look for an efficient car due to the tax scheme.
What nonsense.If the VED was dropped, you would probably see less of a demand for efficient cars too. Kind of the opposite of what the government is trying to achieve, outlawing "gas guzzlers". Right now those that do big miles are hit with high fuel costs, so most choose efficient. If you do low miles, most still look for an efficient car due to the tax scheme.
It used to be called ROAD TAX.
Hence if it's put on fuel those doing the most miles, hence causing the wear, pay their fair share, as would non UK residents.
If you use the new angle - Polluter pays - it still makes sense.
I may be slightly wrong here, but the MID just confirms a car is insured, right? So, are the BiB likely to ignore an insured car as it won't ping up a no insurance marker, even though it could be being driven by a person who the actual insurance doesn't cover ? For example, if some young scally has borrowed Dad's company car whilst his folks arw on holiday?
80quattro said:
I may be slightly wrong here, but the MID just confirms a car is insured, right? So, are the BiB likely to ignore an insured car as it won't ping up a no insurance marker, even though it could be being driven by a person who the actual insurance doesn't cover ? For example, if some young scally has borrowed Dad's company car whilst his folks arw on holiday?
Yes.It can also show a car isn't insured when it is due to delay in the system or as it's being driven my a Trader etc
Or a Trader could list all his mate's cars on MID via his policy but they aren't covered when he's not driving them.
Can they not do away with the rule on cherished reg transfers, the doner vehicle needs to be mot'd, taxed, insured , it makes it so hard if you have an old car that has not been used in years having to be mot'd so it can be transfered, some vehicles will never be economic enough in the cost of carrying out an mot to make it a worthwhile exercise, yet the DVLA can pluck them off the shelf at will and sell at 100% profit, surely this is a piece of red tape that is past its use by date.
[quote=to3m]
One word: USE THE INTERNET. Don't visit the post office. Waste of your time. The cost of VED is one thing, but the inconvenience of having to go to the post office can be fixed already, by not going.
Ah...
But if your insurance runs out on the 1st the internet says that the current insurance will not be valid when the tax disc starts. Even if you have renewed the insurance before your visit it doesn't help because it only looks at the insurance in operation at the point you apply for the disc which doesn't cover the start date...
I know...one of my cars has this problem.
Meanwhile, back at the PO with the paperwork...
One word: USE THE INTERNET. Don't visit the post office. Waste of your time. The cost of VED is one thing, but the inconvenience of having to go to the post office can be fixed already, by not going.
Ah...
But if your insurance runs out on the 1st the internet says that the current insurance will not be valid when the tax disc starts. Even if you have renewed the insurance before your visit it doesn't help because it only looks at the insurance in operation at the point you apply for the disc which doesn't cover the start date...
I know...one of my cars has this problem.
Meanwhile, back at the PO with the paperwork...
The irony is at the moment the sales rep doing 20k miles a year in his modern diesel is paying £30 annual road tax. My 2 cars, 13 and 21 years old, I pay £450 and they both do about 10k if that.
So they modern car owner may pay more overall, but any cost saving measure you decide to make is immediate. I.e, as soon as you decide not to use your car that instant you've made a saving. Everyone on here knows what a pain it is if you decide to SORN a spare car because money's tight, or the car needs a lot of work. It's always in the middle of a month, too, so you lode that!
Likewise, if you decide not to use your old car, you've only saved a very small amount. It's still bloody taxed.
That kinda made sense in my head...
So they modern car owner may pay more overall, but any cost saving measure you decide to make is immediate. I.e, as soon as you decide not to use your car that instant you've made a saving. Everyone on here knows what a pain it is if you decide to SORN a spare car because money's tight, or the car needs a lot of work. It's always in the middle of a month, too, so you lode that!
Likewise, if you decide not to use your old car, you've only saved a very small amount. It's still bloody taxed.
That kinda made sense in my head...
As the government succeed in reducing the number of gas-guzzlers (stupid term) the total revenue received will fall drastically and they will then have to increase the tax on fuel even more to compensate.
They've already made this blunder with the road tax based on emissions and will have to review it very shortly.
So in a somewhat perverse way those of you who buy small fuel-efficient cars are responsible for driving up the price of fuel.
They've already made this blunder with the road tax based on emissions and will have to review it very shortly.
So in a somewhat perverse way those of you who buy small fuel-efficient cars are responsible for driving up the price of fuel.
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