Still a £$&£$ on the log book

[Liquid Knight]

Vehicle sales like this are becoming more and more common place.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-ASTRA-VAN-2-5-V...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Nova-project-sp...

While some are obvious insurance fraud others are even more suspicious. I know a chap who bought an E30 325 from eBay. When the V5 came back the car was registered as a 316i so he found the engine number and capacity to update the DVLA. Six weeks later he was told the engine and other 325 parts were from a stolen car. As a result the car was impounded by the Police and the eBay seller had closed his account so there was no way of getting his money back.

So as a follow up to my "Ringing Kits" thread...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

...I thought I'd help raise awareness of this as well.

Happy hunting and feel free to place any dodgy listings on this thread.

[richb77]

One reason for this is something i have fallen foul of.

Having recently swapped a 2.5 TD in a Defender out for a rover V8 i sent off the log book to the DVLA to tell them the new CC and engine number.

i got a snotty letter in return 6 weeks later telling me i had to have a qualified engineers report proving that the engine was actually in the vehicle (Nothing to do with quality of install just proof its there).

I am a qualified engineer but apparently my say so isnt good enough (backed up with photographic evidence).

I gave up trying in the end.

(i hasten to add the vehicle is still off road!)

[Liquid Knight]

That's the DVLA trying to raise funds with either an IVA or SVA. If the M.O.T is due the M.O.T tester would be qualified to say the engine's fitted or not.

[Horse Pop]

Who do you report these to? DVLA?

[Mastodon2]

There was a readers cars thread on here recently where some kid had a 1.7L Puma engine in his Fiesta, but freely admitted to not updating the logbook so that he would benefit from cheaper tax and insurance, and so the next buyer of the car could do the same.

Worryingly, some PHers actually defended the moron. I suspect they would change their tune if they got hit by one of these con cars, and it quickly transpired the swindler's insurance was not worth the paper it was printed on.

[hairykrishna]

Mastodon2 said:

Worryingly, some PHers actually defended the moron. I suspect they would change their tune if they got hit by one of these con cars, and it quickly transpired the swindler's insurance was not worth the paper it was printed on.

They'd still get paid out. Said moron would then possibly be pursued by his insurance company for costs.

[DanDC5]

Can't the modification be declared to the insurance even if the DVLA hasn't been informed?

[jbailey93]

hairykrishna said:

They'd still get paid out. Said moron would then possibly be pursued by his insurance company for costs.

This If said person is willing to take the risk then let them, it doesn't affect anyone but themselves

[Liquid Knight]

jbailey93 said:

hairykrishna said:

They'd still get paid out. Said moron would then possibly be pursued by his insurance company for costs.

This If said person is willing to take the risk then let them, it doesn't affect anyone but themselves

Nope. Failure to declare modifications would invalidate the insurance (and insurance companies will check every possible loop hole so the payout doesn't come out of their profit margin) so if the scrote in the Puma converted Fiesta were to collide with you the driver would not be insured. M.I.B would pay out and that comes from everyone's premiums.

This thread is not to be forwarded to the DVLA or anyone but for our benefit.

[Birdster]

Liquid Knight said:

While some are obvious insurance fraud others are even more suspicious. I know a chap who bought an E30 325 from eBay. When the V5 came back the car was registered as a 316i so he found the engine number and capacity to update the DVLA. Six weeks later he was told the engine and other 325 parts were from a stolen car. As a result the car was impounded by the Police and the eBay seller had closed his account so there was no way of getting his money back.

Just wondering, what did the insurance say when he tried to insure the vehicle? As surely they would have looked it up and seen it as a 316i. I'm guessing the V5 came back before he tried to insure the car.

[Gareth79]

Liquid Knight said:

jbailey93 said:

hairykrishna said:

They'd still get paid out. Said moron would then possibly be pursued by his insurance company for costs.

This If said person is willing to take the risk then let them, it doesn't affect anyone but themselves

Nope. Failure to declare modifications would invalidate the insurance (and insurance companies will check every possible loop hole so the payout doesn't come out of their profit margin) so if the scrote in the Puma converted Fiesta were to collide with you the driver would not be insured. M.I.B would pay out and that comes from everyone's premiums.

They would have to pay out, but they could recover the sums from the policyholder:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/sectio...

[omgus]

Firstly, i find that Astravan strangely appealing.

When younger i had a CRX mk1 with a mk2 VTEC lump in it. Same engine size (almost) but more power. All the mods had been told to my insurance company but not to DVLA, i had brought it like that and didn't even think of the consequences, I got pulled a few times and it always checked out with the police so more luck than judgement and no harm done in the long term.

So fast forward and i decide i want that Astravan, if everything is declared to the insurance company but not to the DVLA what would the outcome be if i crashed?

I haven't lied to them, full disclosure on all mods so i haven't breached any terms of the policy but i have taxed it on a different band. Does that really invalidate your insurance?


This is all hypothetical, if i wanted a fast van it would obiously be an Escort RS conversion.

[Liquid Knight]

Birdster said:

Liquid Knight said:

While some are obvious insurance fraud others are even more suspicious. I know a chap who bought an E30 325 from eBay. When the V5 came back the car was registered as a 316i so he found the engine number and capacity to update the DVLA. Six weeks later he was told the engine and other 325 parts were from a stolen car. As a result the car was impounded by the Police and the eBay seller had closed his account so there was no way of getting his money back.

Just wondering, what did the insurance say when he tried to insure the vehicle? As surely they would have looked it up and seen it as a 316i. I'm guessing the V5 came back before he tried to insure the car.

It was an "unfinished project" and he wanted to finish the car off before he insured it.

[Triumph Man]

Mastodon2 said:

There was a readers cars thread on here recently where some kid had a 1.7L Puma engine in his Fiesta, but freely admitted to not updating the logbook so that he would benefit from cheaper tax and insurance, and so the next buyer of the car could do the same.

Worryingly, some PHers actually defended the moron. I suspect they would change their tune if they got hit by one of these con cars, and it quickly transpired the swindler's insurance was not worth the paper it was printed on.

Have you got a link? A "friend" on FB has a "Pumesta", was wondering if it was him.

[Liquid Knight]

currybum said:

There is already a corner of the internet for this

http://www.barryboys.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=...

Insurance companies do read that thread and several people have had cover revoked as a result!

First and foremost. Great user name.

Secondly; I'll accept my lack of knowledge of the Barryboys site as a compliment.

All I'm trying to achieve here is helping to make sure no Pistonhead buys a car with a stolen engine or worse and ends up losing everything.

[Birdster]

Thanks for the heads up. I was only wondering why the insurance didn't pick it up. By then it will be too late as the car will have already been purchased.

[WeirdNeville]

I've had good results notifying the DVLA of this. You can report it online, include links to build threads, ebay listings or whatever and they do act on it. I've had a couple of letters through saying that they have taken cars off the road now.

It's insurance fraud and tax evasion all rolled into a little ball of idiocy.

[Liquid Knight]

There was a Renault Five Campus on eBay last week that had the tried and tested 1.7 Volvo turbo conversion. I have nothing against that whatsoever, apart from being a little understeery (nothing a decent set of shocks and anti-roll bar doesn't solve) it's a conversion I did to my GT Raider when I reached the limits of the 1.4 engine. The listing also mentioned standard brakes, suspension and still a 1.1 on the log book.

[Art0ir]

WeirdNeville said:

I've had good results notifying the DVLA of this. You can report it online, include links to build threads, ebay listings or whatever and they do act on it. I've had a couple of letters through saying that they have taken cars off the road now.

It's insurance fraud and tax evasion all rolled into a little ball of idiocy.

You were wearing you batman cape and mask as you typed furiously your email to the DVLA, weren't you?

[WeirdNeville]

Yup. Got me a cave and everything.

I know people say 'It's none of your business, why are you bothering' but if you've ever complained about high insurance premiums or beaurocracy around modifying a car, its enntirely down to idiots who do this kind of thing without legitimising it.

And, crime prevention is part ofmy job (you could say it IS my job) so it is my duty to deal with stuff lke this if I'm in a position to. I don't trawl ebay looking for them, but if they come to my notice and the evidence is good enough it takes 2 minutes to pass the information on.