Still a £$&£$ on the log book

[Liquid Knight]

Slow said:

I fail to see why these are bad? Surely as long as you declare to insurance then your ok?

Feels like déjà vu that I've asked this before.

You have asked before and I answered before but for the sake of other forum members who have just discovered this thread the motive behind it based around my friends experiences.

He bought a BMW E36 touring with a full M3 Evo 3.2 engine conversion. When he registered the engine change and new capacity he got a visit from the Police because the engine was from a stolen car.

Another issue that has come up thanks to contributors to this thread is new build Se7en type kit cars using the identity from an old Dutton or other cheap kit. To bypass the IVA/SVA and without such test putting a potential death trap on the road.

In the case of the Punto above fitting a five cylinder engine into a car only ever designed to take a four requires the drivers side inner wing to be all but removed, a radical alteration to the bulkhead and section removed front valance panel. Without an engineers report, SVA/IVA test to support it the car is practically worthless and instead of doing it properly the seller is passing those problems on to whoever buys it.

A lot of these cars are well worth considering but the first thing I do is check here...

https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dv...

...to see if the engine has been declared. I recommend everyone else does the same in the very least.

[Steffan]

Liquid Knight said:

Slow said:

I fail to see why these are bad? Surely as long as you declare to insurance then your ok?

Feels like déjà vu that I've asked this before.

You have asked before and I answered before but for the sake of other forum members who have just discovered this thread the motive behind it based around my friends experiences.

He bought a BMW E36 touring with a full M3 Evo 3.2 engine conversion. When he registered the engine change and new capacity he got a visit from the Police because the engine was from a stolen car.

Another issue that has come up thanks to contributors to this thread is new build Se7en type kit cars using the identity from an old Dutton or other cheap kit. To bypass the IVA/SVA and without such test putting a potential death trap on the road.

In the case of the Punto above fitting a five cylinder engine into a car only ever designed to take a four requires the drivers side inner wing to be all but removed, a radical alteration to the bulkhead and section removed front valance panel. Without an engineers report, SVA/IVA test to support it the car is practically worthless and instead of doing it properly the seller is passing those problems on to whoever buys it.

A lot of these cars are well worth considering but the first thing I do is check here...

https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dv...

...to see if the engine has been declared. I recommend everyone else does the same in the very least.

Good advice, detailed and accurate. For some reason many prospective buyers seem to think the paperwork can be sorted out without difficulty. It cannot in cases like these indeed as you suggest serious and expensive consequences can arise. Hence the need to be reasonably cautious. I have no doubt your efforts have warned many people about the reality of the risks. Good post.

[Liquid Knight]

So find a car you like the look of...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Barchetta-RIGHT-HAN...



...check it on the DVLA website...

DVLA said:

Vehicle make FIAT
Date of first registration 01 April 1998
Year of manufacture 1997
Cylinder capacity (cc) 1747cc
CO2Emissions Not available
Fuel type PETROL
Vehicle status Tax not due
Vehicle colour RED
Vehicle type approval Not available
Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY
Revenue weight Not available

...roll your eyes and move on.

[rovermorris999]

And another undeclared engine swap.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volkswagen-MK2-Golf-2-8-...

[grumbledoak]

sealtt said:

Everytime this thread pops up I read it as

"Still a c**t on the logbook"

I am still not sure what the title is supposed to mean. I click on it out of curiosity every so often. Not sure I am any the wiser now.

[mph1977]

grumbledoak said:

sealtt said:

Everytime this thread pops up I read it as

"Still a c**t on the logbook"

I am still not sure what the title is supposed to mean. I click on it out of curiosity every so often. Not sure I am any the wiser now.

the thread is about undeclared engine swaps ... and how they are often advertised on the bay of fleas etc

[Liquid Knight]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vauxhall-Mk2-Cavalier-SR...

Brilliant!

DVLA said:

[u]Vehicle details[/u]

Vehicle make VAUXHALL
Date of first registration 13 April 1984
Year of manufacture 1984
Cylinder capacity (cc) 1796cc
CO₂Emissions Not available
Fuel type PETROL
Vehicle status Tax not due
Vehicle colour GOLD
Vehicle type approval Not available
Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY
Revenue weight Not available

[Liquid Knight]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/fiesta-zetec-s-puma-1-7-...

Only a hundred cc difference but that's all it will take for insurance to be void if you're involved in a collision.

[Liquid Knight]

Just bought a lotto ticket for tonight so I'm spending my impending win...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Abarth-695-695-SS-Abarth...

DVLA said:

Vehicle make FIAT
Date of first registration 01 August 1974
Year of manufacture 1972
Cylinder capacity (cc) 499cc
CO₂Emissions Not available
Fuel type PETROL
Vehicle status Not taxed
Vehicle colour WHITE
Vehicle type approval Not available
Wheelplan 2 AXLE RIGID BODY
Revenue weight Not available

So not only is it fake but it's an undeclared fake.

£20,000 is way too much.

[gowmonster]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231576742287

318 with a 330 engine.

[Liquid Knight]

gowmonster said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231576742287

318 with a 330 engine.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/231576742287?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D231576742287%26_rdc%3D1

Spam hacked link there chap. This one works. Good find.

[maurauth]

Geekman said:

It's in Southall, if you go there you'll immediately understand why.

And for less money than what they want for it you can buy a bonfide A45 AMG...

[maurauth]

SystemParanoia said:

I'd have that in a heartbeat.

cheap insurance, cheap tax, and poooooooower

better than being stuck with an accident damaged cut'n'shut

I actually love that Lupo.

Would have bought it at that price for a little fun track car.

[nonsense]

To play devils advocate, if one were to buy one of these (where one had, to the best of their abilities ascertained that the engine was not stolen) and swap the engine with one the same but documented, or swapped whichever part was stamped, could you then get it road legal? I assume this has probably been asked already tbh but scrolling so many pages on a phone is a pita!

[mph1977]

nonsense said:

To play devils advocate, if one were to buy one of these (where one had, to the best of their abilities ascertained that the engine was not stolen) and swap the engine with one the same but documented, or swapped whichever part was stamped, could you then get it road legal? I assume this has probably been asked already tbh but scrolling so many pages on a phone is a pita!

at which point you may as well buy an unmolested base vehicle and legitmately sourced / new parts for the conversion - to provide the paper trail.

as this is what it's about with the undelcared engine swaps stuff realistically there are 3 reasons why they aren't declared

1. the transplanted parts are not squeaky clean legally
2. the convertor wants to commit motor insurance / VED / congestion charge etc etc etc fraud
3. the convertor is a slack arsed lazy git and you'd have to worry aobut what else they ain't bovvered with that m8 ...

Edited by mph1977 on Monday 15th June 11:14

Edited by mph1977 on Monday 15th June 11:28

[Aphex]

mph1977 said:

at which point you may as well buy an unmolested base vehicle and legitmately sourced / new parts for the conversion - to provide the paper trail.

as this is what it;s aobut with the undelcared engine swaps stuff realistically there are 3 reasons why they aren;t declared

1. the transplanted parts are not squeaky clean legally
2. the convertor wants to commit motor insurance / VED / congestation harge etc etc etc fraud
3. the convertor is a lsack arsed lazy git and you'd have to worry aobut what else they ain't bovvered with that m8 ...

Some people convert cars for themselves only. Struggle with the DVLA but insure it properly. It's not always doom and gloom

[mph1977]

Aphex said:

mph1977 said:

at which point you may as well buy an unmolested base vehicle and legitmately sourced / new parts for the conversion - to provide the paper trail.

as this is what it's about with the undelcared engine swaps stuff realistically there are 3 reasons why they aren't declared

1. the transplanted parts are not squeaky clean legally
2. the convertor wants to commit motor insurance / VED / congestion charge etc etc etc fraud
3. the convertor is a slack arsed lazy git and you'd have to worry aobut what else they ain't bovvered with that m8 ...

Some people convert cars for themselves only. Struggle with the DVLA but insure it properly. It's not always doom and gloom

See 3. above ... it's bordering on the freewibble to suggest that making sure a vehicle you intend to use on the road isn't legitimate ... and the attitude that it doesn;t matter seems rather odd ...

[Aphex]

If I've tried to notify the DVLA of a change and been met with their ineptitude (my experience) then I'll just make sure its insured properly.

[Steffan]

Aphex said:

If I've tried to notify the DVLA of a change and been met with their ineptitude (my experience) then I'll just make sure its insured properly.

Unless the modifications are declared to the DVLA and are accepted by the DVLA the car will not be correctly listed on the DVLA data base. In consequence I very much doubt that an insurer would accept the risk if the fact of non compliance is made clear. Which it should be. Insurance companies IME generally will only insure correctly registered cars. For that reason such unregistered modified cars have become a very difficult commodity to sell, even on the Internet. Which is why so many reappear and reappear time and again. As others have said it is both cheaper and easier to correctly carry out the modificfactions on au unmolested donor and register the modifications as required by the DVLA. Whole bag of trouble getting incorrectly registered unmodified cars accepted OTR and insured. This is why so many of these fail to sell.

[Aphex]

In my experience there has been no issue at all with the insurance company.