Re:- Ringside Seat : to cage or not to cage?

[Adenauer]

My Golf in Dale's bit up there. I now no longer have a choice in the matter as Mrs. Adenauer won't let me onto the track in anything without a cage anymore, which is understandable really

[j_s14a]

HustleRussell said:

By all means fit a cage but as others have said already, you are exposing yourself to a much greater head trauma risk if you drive with a full cage and no crash helmet. Cages are just plain dangerous when used in conjunction with a normal 3-point inertia reel belt and zero head protection.

+1

I'm going to go for a half cage in my mk1 Golf track car for a bit more roll over protection, no way I'm having any bars near my head.

[NAS]

Adenauer said:

My Golf in Dale's bit up there. I now no longer have a choice in the matter as Mrs. Adenauer won't let me onto the track in anything without a cage anymore, which is understandable really

Very understandable. I stull haven't figured out which God took pity on me the morning I rolled my un-caged POS Peugeot 309 at Brunnchen, but I know it was the right one. Loads of laps on the Ring -> cage.

[SJR202]

Speaking from experience when I rolled a Rally car down a Welsh valley with 2 end over ends and 8 barrel rolls, cage and helmets saved the co-driver and my life for sure. His crash helmet cracked and gave him mild concussion from hitting the roll cage. With full harnesses, helmets and cage not to mention all other approved safety equipment we walked away completely fine. The car was a mess and had to be reshelled, no car can withstand the impact on a roof, you want to be protected as much as possible by as many things as possible when it all goes wrong!

[Adenauer]

NAS said:

Very understandable. I stull haven't figured out which God took pity on me the morning I rolled my un-caged POS Peugeot 309 at Brunnchen, but I know it was the right one. Loads of laps on the Ring -> cage.

'twas God Naaktgeboren, the ancient God of lanky blonde Dutch streaks of piss

[monthefish]

Good article Dale.

[anonymous-user]

Just for accuracy and completeness, it should be noted that the presence of a cage (or otherwise) in an Industry Pool test car is no indication on what excatly that car is being used for. The risk assessment for specific tests requires a cage, and not on others. Also, the mule will be doing more than one test in it's life, and their is no point sticking in a cage to do a lap of the ring, then expecting the car to go and do an "interior squeak" test afterwards etc.

Most chassis dynamics cars will be caged at an early level (AP/CP/PP levels) for safety, but the later build test cars will not have a cage (because the one you buy from the showroom doesn't come with a cage!)

[Zumbruk]

Adenauer said:

My Golf in Dale's bit up there. I now no longer have a choice in the matter as Mrs. Adenauer won't let me onto the track in anything without a cage anymore, which is understandable really

I foolishly showed my wife this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FE_N7oIPvc

Now she wants me to fit a full cage to my recently-acquired track-day Westfield.

[Porkie]

grenpayne said:

It's not cheap and it's a lot of hassle but I'm going from this:



to this:

It is pretty cheap and its hardly any hassle at all!

Drop the car at 'Caged' early in the morning... go sight seeing, shopping watch a film, read a book or sleep for few hours. come back and pick it up!

Thats what I did.

Its more expensive and a bigger pain in the ass on almost any other car in the world!

[NAS]

Adenauer said:

NAS said:

Very understandable. I stull haven't figured out which God took pity on me the morning I rolled my un-caged POS Peugeot 309 at Brunnchen, but I know it was the right one. Loads of laps on the Ring -> cage.

'twas God Naaktgeboren, the ancient God of lanky blonde Dutch streaks of piss

He's my favourite :

[Antj]

We were at DN6 last week, in a fairly standard Ep3 Civic type R, however we were gettign a lick on, driver has well over 400 laps under his belt, but i would say in the last 50 laps or so the speed has takena massive increase, going through Plflantzgarten 3 at over 110mph suddenly makes you realise that if anything went wrong , despite wearing helemts etc we were not going to standa chance.

I'm not saying a cage would make us invincible, however it would help and i know a few regulars whose lives have been saved by cages,

oh and another thing to remember, if you fully cage your car, its a track car only going forward. Proper padding is a must and good quality seats and harnesses.

However i personally think if you cage and harness the car you should also fit kill switches and plumbed in fire extinguisher.

[Cemesis]

I've been going to the Ring for years and sometimes the topic of a cage and/or helmet would come up. I never have and never would fit a cage or wear a helmet in the M5's and M3's that I drove there.

Whilst it seems obvious to increase the level of saftey in the car and I completley agree and understand the logic and reason behind it, I find that a helmet disconnects me from the car. Its almost like sensory deprevation; I cannot hear as well, I cannot catch things as quickly out of my peripheral vision and I'm tall enough that I need to hunch down in the seat which feels un-natural and risks robbing me of concentration.

I can simplify it quite easily. You are more likely to survive a crash with a helmet and a roll cage and more likely to have a crash if you are wearing a helmet, since you cannot really fit a cage and not wear a helmet.

How do you weigh those up? I guess as others have said, it depends on the car. For an open top Caterham I'd want a cage and accept the deprevation. In an E39 M5 with 10 airbags, I chose not to.

[Evo]

I speak from experience of having a high speed off on a trackday, it hurts period.

I would definately have at least a half cage if I went to the Ring, just not worth taking the risk. I'm no racing driver and whilst I am a good road driver it's oh so easy to run out of talent.

Clio looked like it was moving very quickly and alot of fun

[Adenauer]

Zumbruk said:

I foolishly showed my wife this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FE_N7oIPvc

Now she wants me to fit a full cage to my recently-acquired track-day Westfield.

Good

[DiscoColin]

The older a car, the more advisable a cage becomes. E36 - definitely cage it as you aren't driving Ms Daisy and the chassis just isn't that strong. If it were an E90 though I would say that the case is less compelling for a mostly TF use car and becomes more a matter of personal taste than something that is de-facto essential.

[Digga]

Adenauer said:

Zumbruk said:

I foolishly showed my wife this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FE_N7oIPvc

Now she wants me to fit a full cage to my recently-acquired track-day Westfield.

Good

fk a tramp! He very nearly took the timing display tower out there too - the driver and Shelseley were lucky there.

For my money, regular track use would mean at least a half cage, plus race harnesses minimum. I've had a few crashes, one at Loton, head on into the tyres at about 30 ish when hail interrupted the end of a fast (would have been p1 ) lap - shoulder hurt for ages (even with harness - reckon I;d have broken a collar bone without), and one at 3 Sisters where the car got airborne and I could see over the barriers and down the bank on the other side, but fortunately landed on track , shiny-side up.

[grenpayne]

Porkie said:

grenpayne said:

It's not cheap and it's a lot of hassle but I'm going from this:



to this:

It is pretty cheap and its hardly any hassle at all!

Drop the car at 'Caged' early in the morning... go sight seeing, shopping watch a film, read a book or sleep for few hours. come back and pick it up!

Thats what I did.

Its more expensive and a bigger pain in the ass on almost any other car in the world!

It's a little more complicated for me as my car is going back to Arch first to have the cage bosses welded in, passenger footwell shortened for the dry-sump tank, new sideskins and rearskin, diff bracing and a few other bits and bobs. Plus the fact my existing half doors don't fit. But I take your point about CAGED doing the work, taking the hassle away Chris from the Seven Workshop will be assembling the car and when I mentioned he would have to fit the SLR cage, he just groaned, then started talking about hydraulic presses and tree winches

[KM666]

I want a cage for my road car. Look at the WRC, if you think any of those lads would have walked away from the crashes they have with no cage you must be stupid. For me its the amount of people driving 2 ton Audis and BMWs far too fast in poor conditions even with a high euro N cap rating you wont stand a chance against one of those krautside lane wkers due to the difference in mass. Every near miss i've had is somebody in a big 5 series or A4 overtaking somebody into oncoming traffic (I've had to do 4 emergency stops from 60mph because of these idiots, 3 5 series and 1 A4) or suddenly realising they cant pass you in time and trying to force you off the road by merging into the side of your car (happened twice with an RS4).

Or better yet simply allow me to mount a minigun onto the roof of my car, even the odds in my favour.

I also didnt think cars were crash tested for rear impacts at all?

What I dont understand is a 'half cage'. If anything wouldnt they make the car more dangerous by creating a weakness (by stregnthening the rear the energy of the impact has to go somewhere, the soft un caged section in which the driver sits is the obvious 'new' crumple zone) around the driver and front passenger cell? In a roll over the front section of the roof would simply cave into the drivers face is my thinking.

Edited by KM666 on Friday 19th October 13:18

[NISaxoVTR]

Zumbruk said:

I foolishly showed my wife this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FE_N7oIPvc

Now she wants me to fit a full cage to my recently-acquired track-day Westfield.

I think this one makes a better case!

[don logan]

Think of it another way around, rather than it making a statement about what a Ninja you are.

I wear Dainese armour when snowboarding, not because I`m a Ninja but because I`m a bit st and go a bit too fast sometimes!