RE: Subaru prepping BRZ Turbo?
Discussion
kambites said:
PhilJames said:
NA is too slow, I'm not sure how anyone thinks this car is light weight whilst it produces a claimed 280 bhp and has a 0-6 time of 7.3.
Eh? Johnnytheboy said:
Captain Muppet said:
A GT86/BRZ thread wouldn't be the same without someone saying it needs more power.
Presumably also all the people who insisted the existing models don't need more power will condemn any hotter version on the same basis?
radio man said:
Dan you say "Is more power what we really want out of the package though? Or would it be messing with the purist, back to basics ethos that’s made the GT86 and BRZ such a breath of fresh air to those able to look beyond grip, horsepower, mph and 0-60?"
Duhhh is the pope catholic?
Depends on who "we" is. I certainly don't want more power, especially if it comes from a turbocharger. Duhhh is the pope catholic?
Having said that, it does make sense for Subaru to do this. Performance Subarus have always, to my mind, been more about brute force (both in grip and power terms) than finesse. I have absolutely no wish to own a turbocharged version of this, but I'll be glad that it exists as long as the N/A one continues to exist as well.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 23 October 14:28
sandersc74 said:
Hands up who wondered why Subaru hadn't turbocharged it anyway?
Office politics between the 2 companies.
Everyone would want the turbo'd Scooby, so if they get the green light....Toyota would have to follow suit. Turbo it, turbo it and turbo it again.
While I concurr that I can imagine Subaru having it and Toyota not would have been a non-starter I think if you priced them appropriately there would be a market for both an N/A and a turbo version. Subaru could have an STI version and Toyota could one under a TRD or GT badging.Office politics between the 2 companies.
Everyone would want the turbo'd Scooby, so if they get the green light....Toyota would have to follow suit. Turbo it, turbo it and turbo it again.
This is an interesting argument.
I have owned a GT86 for 6 weeks and have got to know it pretty well - in the dry and wet weather, and I am now in the position to judge it for it's merits and pitfalls far better than you can from an hours test drive.
1) The power argument. It is not actually slow at all. It merely requires you to use the top 2,500 rpm to get the performance. Below 4,500 it is not going to be able to react quick enough get decent performance figures as it struggles to gather pace with it's rather measly torque output. This is both a boon and a frustration. Frustrating in that if you need to get going quickly you need to drop a cog. Great, because you need to get involved and drop a cog! I have also found that second gear run's out at just 60mph with a soft limiter. If you need performance figures to justify your purchase this car ain't it.
A little extra torque between 3,500 and 4,500 along with an extra 20bhp at the top would be ideal and would transform the engine far more than a turbo in my opinion. I like the fact the engine needs to be worked to get the most from it. It makes me feel involved in the process rather than planting my foot and letting a slug of turbo torque and phenomenal grip take care of proceedings.
2) The Chassis. I absolutely love the GT86 chassis. I have owned Lotus Elise variants, Turbo hatches and German saloons and the GT86 offers great levels of involvement. In third gear on a committed 45 degree turn with your foot planted the back end just shifts a few degrees allowing you to remove lock and let the chassis and diff do it's thing. It's never intimidating. On slower roundabouts it isn't hard to get the back end into play (grip under throttle is C+ but the chassis is grade A). This may also contribute to how it get's off the mark in performance tests?
Personally I would not change this formula unless repeated track time was on order.
3) From the early concepts this car was always about feel as opposed to outright pace. I personally feel the recipe could be spoiled with the extra weight a turbo variant would bring (uprated cooling, engine, intercooler, pipes, uprated brakes, uprated clutch, gearbox internals, wheels etc). It would also upset the balance and shift weight forwards where as right now it feels ideal. At the moment the car feels light, feels well connected, and pure. I don't see a Turbo being the answer.
Will Subaru do a Turbo Sti? I wouldn't be surprised if they did if they think there is a market for it. And there probably is. Is it what the car was designed for? NO. But the same could be said of every hot hatch on the market being based on a small family runabout...
I have owned a GT86 for 6 weeks and have got to know it pretty well - in the dry and wet weather, and I am now in the position to judge it for it's merits and pitfalls far better than you can from an hours test drive.
1) The power argument. It is not actually slow at all. It merely requires you to use the top 2,500 rpm to get the performance. Below 4,500 it is not going to be able to react quick enough get decent performance figures as it struggles to gather pace with it's rather measly torque output. This is both a boon and a frustration. Frustrating in that if you need to get going quickly you need to drop a cog. Great, because you need to get involved and drop a cog! I have also found that second gear run's out at just 60mph with a soft limiter. If you need performance figures to justify your purchase this car ain't it.
A little extra torque between 3,500 and 4,500 along with an extra 20bhp at the top would be ideal and would transform the engine far more than a turbo in my opinion. I like the fact the engine needs to be worked to get the most from it. It makes me feel involved in the process rather than planting my foot and letting a slug of turbo torque and phenomenal grip take care of proceedings.
2) The Chassis. I absolutely love the GT86 chassis. I have owned Lotus Elise variants, Turbo hatches and German saloons and the GT86 offers great levels of involvement. In third gear on a committed 45 degree turn with your foot planted the back end just shifts a few degrees allowing you to remove lock and let the chassis and diff do it's thing. It's never intimidating. On slower roundabouts it isn't hard to get the back end into play (grip under throttle is C+ but the chassis is grade A). This may also contribute to how it get's off the mark in performance tests?
Personally I would not change this formula unless repeated track time was on order.
3) From the early concepts this car was always about feel as opposed to outright pace. I personally feel the recipe could be spoiled with the extra weight a turbo variant would bring (uprated cooling, engine, intercooler, pipes, uprated brakes, uprated clutch, gearbox internals, wheels etc). It would also upset the balance and shift weight forwards where as right now it feels ideal. At the moment the car feels light, feels well connected, and pure. I don't see a Turbo being the answer.
Will Subaru do a Turbo Sti? I wouldn't be surprised if they did if they think there is a market for it. And there probably is. Is it what the car was designed for? NO. But the same could be said of every hot hatch on the market being based on a small family runabout...
Edited by David1976 on Tuesday 23 October 14:44
I've been pondering this car and it's toyota/subie cooperation for a while, the cars are so closely speced, that I don't see any reason to buy one or the other...here is how I think it should go
Subaru should take the car, convert it to AWD, and offer the Turbo, and STI variant, much like they currently do with the WRX, (I'm sure the same engines could be used) this would set the car apart, and although it would obviously be more expensive than the toyota variant, people will pay that for the AWD alone, I'm sure, and the subie AWD systems are excellent, it would make this car a true competitor
Toyota can tune the bugger all they want, make hot versions of their model, with or without forced induction, these would obvously be cheaper, but as a RWD only option, I'm sure they would sell a killing of them to people wanting to be drifters, or people in climates where AWD is just not needed
now, each of them has their own market, and there would be very little cross-competition, and each can still keep their own brand identity
you can write the check out to me, Toyota & Subaru, or I'll take payment in an STI version...
Subaru should take the car, convert it to AWD, and offer the Turbo, and STI variant, much like they currently do with the WRX, (I'm sure the same engines could be used) this would set the car apart, and although it would obviously be more expensive than the toyota variant, people will pay that for the AWD alone, I'm sure, and the subie AWD systems are excellent, it would make this car a true competitor
Toyota can tune the bugger all they want, make hot versions of their model, with or without forced induction, these would obvously be cheaper, but as a RWD only option, I'm sure they would sell a killing of them to people wanting to be drifters, or people in climates where AWD is just not needed
now, each of them has their own market, and there would be very little cross-competition, and each can still keep their own brand identity
you can write the check out to me, Toyota & Subaru, or I'll take payment in an STI version...
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