RE: Subaru prepping BRZ Turbo?
Discussion
Captain Muppet said:
driftingphil said:
absolutely this is what the BRZ needs. Although 280BHP still a bit thin in today's market, maybe several models with different levels a bit like the evo's, maybe BRZ 320, 360, 400.
A GT86/BRZ thread wouldn't be the same without someone saying it needs more power.
Sort of agree, people said it needed around 250bhp, rumours say 280bhp, but still it needs more power?
Interestingly I was at Croft with my standard mx5 and my Dad's supercharged one (+100bhp). We agreed that on track, the NA ~130bhp car was more fun thanks to the comedy tyres and lack of lag (bare in mind SC lag is a lot less than Turbo lag) meaning it was more controllable on the limit. That said, we also agreed that his car is more fun as a b-road hoon mobile - great in situations where you want enough power to break traction since you can't commit to trailbraking.
My worry is that a turbo car would be even less fun on track, but that's coming from my lagtastic Impreza experiences. Bet it would be class on a b-road though...
katulu said:
I've been pondering this car and it's toyota/subie cooperation for a while, the cars are so closely speced, that I don't see any reason to buy one or the other...here is how I think it should go
Subaru should take the car, convert it to AWD, and offer the Turbo, and STI variant, much like they currently do with the WRX, (I'm sure the same engines could be used) this would set the car apart, and although it would obviously be more expensive than the toyota variant, people will pay that for the AWD alone, I'm sure, and the subie AWD systems are excellent, it would make this car a true competitor
Toyota can tune the bugger all they want, make hot versions of their model, with or without forced induction, these would obvously be cheaper, but as a RWD only option, I'm sure they would sell a killing of them to people wanting to be drifters, or people in climates where AWD is just not needed
now, each of them has their own market, and there would be very little cross-competition, and each can still keep their own brand identity
you can write the check out to me, Toyota & Subaru, or I'll take payment in an STI version...
I suspect the problem is that, IIRC, Subaru's 4WD system requires the engine to be in front of the front axle line so they had a choice at original chassis design time - either make it RWD only and well balanced, or make it possible to fit the 4WD system and make it under-steer like a pig. Subaru should take the car, convert it to AWD, and offer the Turbo, and STI variant, much like they currently do with the WRX, (I'm sure the same engines could be used) this would set the car apart, and although it would obviously be more expensive than the toyota variant, people will pay that for the AWD alone, I'm sure, and the subie AWD systems are excellent, it would make this car a true competitor
Toyota can tune the bugger all they want, make hot versions of their model, with or without forced induction, these would obvously be cheaper, but as a RWD only option, I'm sure they would sell a killing of them to people wanting to be drifters, or people in climates where AWD is just not needed
now, each of them has their own market, and there would be very little cross-competition, and each can still keep their own brand identity
you can write the check out to me, Toyota & Subaru, or I'll take payment in an STI version...
If you want a dubiously balanced 4wd rocketship, why not just buy an Impreza?
If Toyota have sense they will blueprint the engine, like Honda did with their Mugen Type R's, add 25 hp by way of engine/exhaust, keep the weight down with a few modest tuning items and sell it as a TRD keeping all of the original car's benefits and adding to the experience rather than detracting from it.
Sure, it means that it'll be less the "pure driving experience" car than it is now, but on the other hand it will be a lot faster There's no reason not to sell both, and with after market tuning kits already starting to show up it shouldn't totally break the development-budget bank to do the same sort of thing in house.
Selling a "hot" turbo version seems like a sensible way to broaden it's appeal to include those that just want to go really _fast_ to me. It's not like they're talking about taking the current NA one away.
There's no reason not to sell both, and with after market tuning kits already starting to show up it shouldn't totally break the development-budget bank to do the same sort of thing in house. Selling a "hot" turbo version seems like a sensible way to broaden it's appeal to include those that just want to go really _fast_ to me. It's not like they're talking about taking the current NA one away.
RacingBlue said:
One of the biggest selling points of the BRZ/GT86 is the normally aspirated engine - I don't want a turbo!
Not sure about engine mapping in UK cars (should be the same as in all other EU countries), but in continental Europe (Czech Republic, to be exact), a production variant has extremly screwed up, inacurrate and slow throttle reactions below 4500 RPM, because of the emission tuning. Read that from one of our well respected and very skilled journalist and it's aparently close to impossible to do accurate heel/toeing or double clutching at these lower RPMs. When you are fully on it, each gear to the limiter, only then it starts to behave correctly. So maybe a forced induction is way to go, instead of smothered N/A engine.Some nice GT86 driving here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
Think you would be executed for that in the UK, didnt't you?
I prefer the looks of the TRD GT86 - that Turbo'd with all the options would be very nice. All the TRD kit becomes available Jan 2013 the sales man told me, would add rather a lot to the price though - I think he was way off the mark when he told me £5K more for brakes, exhaust, seats, forged wheels & body kit.
I was talking to a guy who works for Subaru earlier at the test centre (passed my Module 1 bike practical today! 
).
According to him, this is out next year. Subaru are intending to homologate it for the new RGT class of the WRC. Apparently there's rumblings of a 2.5-litre turbocharged version too.
).According to him, this is out next year. Subaru are intending to homologate it for the new RGT class of the WRC. Apparently there's rumblings of a 2.5-litre turbocharged version too.
I personally think a light car like this with RWD and nimble balance should be Naturally Aspirated or Supercharged to make the most of a well poised chassis. A big thump from a turbo coming on boost could prove the undoing of a good chassis unless they plow loads into developing the turbo version, which leads to extra costs. Supercharging would help get round that, or even a bigger engine, maybe they can increase the capacity of the existing unit somehow?
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