RE: PH Heroes: Peugeot 405 Mi16
Discussion
shalmaneser said:
Krikkit said:
Yep - many have fallen pray to this unfortunately, by very short-sighted 205 owners. 
Short sighted how? It turns the 205 into a rocketship! Most MI16s cam out of Citroens anyway.
My first ever car. I don't think there was ever a more mismatched engine and chassis ever. I'd contend the claim they were fast - brisk is a better description - but the handling was brilliant. Not as sharp as the 205 but a lot more confidence inspiring at higher speeds and still throttle adjustable.
The engine though just didn't suit what was essentially an Executive barge. The big problem was that the car fell between two market sectors IMO. It didn't work as a homologation special for TC because it was heavier than it needed to be, being spec'd like an Exec barge, and the contemporary turbo cars from Ford, Vauxhaul and Renault were much faster. And as an Exec barge the engine was just too much hard work, having little torque and needing to be revved hard to keep in the power band and you were forever changing gear.
The engine though just didn't suit what was essentially an Executive barge. The big problem was that the car fell between two market sectors IMO. It didn't work as a homologation special for TC because it was heavier than it needed to be, being spec'd like an Exec barge, and the contemporary turbo cars from Ford, Vauxhaul and Renault were much faster. And as an Exec barge the engine was just too much hard work, having little torque and needing to be revved hard to keep in the power band and you were forever changing gear.
eliotrw said:
The engine that replaced it was in the 306 s16 not the GTI which was the 155hp XU10J4R
Which was then replaced itself with the engine in the 306 gti-6 /rallye/zx dakar/xsara vts
whihc was the 2.0 Xu10j4rs and was 167hp
The Ph2 2.0 Mi16/S16 and Xantia VSX engine is just coded the XU10J4.Which was then replaced itself with the engine in the 306 gti-6 /rallye/zx dakar/xsara vts
whihc was the 2.0 Xu10j4rs and was 167hp
The XU10J4'R' is actually a different, later engine, close to a GTi6 but with smaller ports/cams, different inlet manifold & a cast exhaust manifold etc, 135bhp or thereabouts.
Lot of rubbish at some comments here. If regularly serviced(cambelt) this engines(and cars) were very reliable and run for ages. Corrado G60, despite being excellent car, is not a patch on 405 Mi16 handling abilities. In fact it is 205 GTI in saloon form. Regarding engine, if it is properly run in on fast roads it responds superbly from bellow 4000 rpm too. And off course it is tail happy, but with natural reactions and very precise(but not fast) steering it is intuitive to correct. Stiffened suspension, and heavier engine in front make it slightly more stable than lesser and higher ride height 405s. One should take care to have similarly worn tyres on front and back, it is sensitive like racing car in that respect.I think it deserves as much recognition as original Bmw M3, but I suppose higher costs and 205 Gti cult influenced its popularity as second hand cars. And todays Peugeots, although reliable, are mere transport devices in comparison(like 99,9 percent of new cars).
And at the end of 100 thous.km test in German Sport Auto, MI16 (147 BHP) on used 14 inches tyres recorded time of 1.25,1 s in Hockenheim, while tested by same magazine than new BMw 325i(192 bhp) with sports suspension took 1.25,8s .
And at the end of 100 thous.km test in German Sport Auto, MI16 (147 BHP) on used 14 inches tyres recorded time of 1.25,1 s in Hockenheim, while tested by same magazine than new BMw 325i(192 bhp) with sports suspension took 1.25,8s .
Edited by hotmelt on Wednesday 24th October 15:27
Err...405 T16 = 2 Door ONLY, 309 GTi most were 2 Door
405 Mi16 = One of the greats, ran one for 2 years when they were new after a 205 GTi 1.6 & 1.9
Lift over-steer in 205 GTi = Heart-stopping, never experienced it in an Mi16 - Legendary car!
405 Mi16 = One of the greats, ran one for 2 years when they were new after a 205 GTi 1.6 & 1.9
Lift over-steer in 205 GTi = Heart-stopping, never experienced it in an Mi16 - Legendary car!
Antj said:
Best 4 door?
Sorry ph but you forgot the 309 gti and the 405 T16
Sorry ph but you forgot the 309 gti and the 405 T16
cienzod said:
Err...405 T16 = 2 Door ONLY, 309 GTi most were 2 Door
405 Mi16 = One of the greats, ran one for 2 years when they were new after a 205 GTi 1.6 & 1.9
Lift over-steer in 205 GTi = Heart-stopping, never experienced it in an Mi16 - Legendary car!
The T16 was 4 door. 405 Mi16 = One of the greats, ran one for 2 years when they were new after a 205 GTi 1.6 & 1.9
Lift over-steer in 205 GTi = Heart-stopping, never experienced it in an Mi16 - Legendary car!
Antj said:
Best 4 door?
Sorry ph but you forgot the 309 gti and the 405 T16
Sorry ph but you forgot the 309 gti and the 405 T16
hotmelt said:
. Corrado G60, despite being excellent car, is not a patch on 405 Mi16 handling abilities.
Having owned an Mi16 and 3 Corrados, I can safely inform you that you are so wrong. The mi16 is lovely, the Corrado is the best driving FWD road car of all time IMO. (discounted the DC2 as its too firm for our roads)cienzod said:
Err...405 T16 = 2 Door ONLY, 309 GTi most were 2 Door
405 Mi16 = One of the greats, ran one for 2 years when they were new after a 205 GTi 1.6 & 1.9
Lift over-steer in 205 GTi = Heart-stopping, never experienced it in an Mi16 - Legendary car!
Yep, as stated, 405T16 road car definitely 4 door, 309 GTi 3- and 5-door versions.405 Mi16 = One of the greats, ran one for 2 years when they were new after a 205 GTi 1.6 & 1.9
Lift over-steer in 205 GTi = Heart-stopping, never experienced it in an Mi16 - Legendary car!
Antj said:
Best 4 door?
Sorry ph but you forgot the 309 gti and the 405 T16
Sorry ph but you forgot the 309 gti and the 405 T16
I remember Autocar saying in their 1989 Annual Handling Day article that, fine handling car though the 405 Mi-16 was on the road, at Castle Combe it was the car most prone to oversteer on the track. Series of pics in the article illustrating it as well!
s m said:
cienzod said:
Err...405 T16 = 2 Door ONLY, 309 GTi most were 2 Door
405 Mi16 = One of the greats, ran one for 2 years when they were new after a 205 GTi 1.6 & 1.9
Lift over-steer in 205 GTi = Heart-stopping, never experienced it in an Mi16 - Legendary car!
Yep, as stated, 405T16 road car definitely 4 door, 309 GTi 3- and 5-door versions.405 Mi16 = One of the greats, ran one for 2 years when they were new after a 205 GTi 1.6 & 1.9
Lift over-steer in 205 GTi = Heart-stopping, never experienced it in an Mi16 - Legendary car!
Antj said:
Best 4 door?
Sorry ph but you forgot the 309 gti and the 405 T16
Sorry ph but you forgot the 309 gti and the 405 T16
I remember Autocar saying in their 1989 Annual Handling Day article that, fine handling car though the 405 Mi-16 was on the road, at Castle Combe it was the car most proneto oversteer on the track. Series of pics in the article illustrating it as well!
cienzod said:
My bad!
Rally versions were only ever 2 Door...that's my ageing memory...only wanting to remember what it wants to remember!
As I said, I *think* the 405 rally car was actually a 205-T6 Grp B car, but with silhouette panels fitted as a marketing exercise to bolster 405 sales. I could be wrong though as I'm remembering it from back in the days it raced.Rally versions were only ever 2 Door...that's my ageing memory...only wanting to remember what it wants to remember!
rhinochopig said:
The T16 was 4 door.
Funny, whenever I see a 405 now it is always some old phlegger in an diesel estate running it back and forth to car boot sales full of crap, usually reeking either of curry fumes or eau d'Full English, strange to remember these were actually pretty upmarket cars, remember going in my bosses early TD in about 93, was my first taste of the "diesel revolution", how we marvelled at the solid shove from 90 bhp and the tales of 45 MPG.
Even the 406 has become a rare sight, come to think of it, when do you really see any big Peugeot, the 407 is a rare sight.
How did these stack up to the Primera GT, remember being very impressed with one when I went for a go in it, 150 bhp was a big deal back then, with inflation, in terms of weight and power, 150 bhp back then is like 250 is now.
Even the 406 has become a rare sight, come to think of it, when do you really see any big Peugeot, the 407 is a rare sight.
How did these stack up to the Primera GT, remember being very impressed with one when I went for a go in it, 150 bhp was a big deal back then, with inflation, in terms of weight and power, 150 bhp back then is like 250 is now.
j_s14a said:
hotmelt said:
. Corrado G60, despite being excellent car, is not a patch on 405 Mi16 handling abilities.
Having owned an Mi16 and 3 Corrados, I can safely inform you that you are so wrong. The mi16 is lovely, the Corrado is the best driving FWD road car of all time IMO. (discounted the DC2 as its too firm for our roads)J4CKO said:
How did these stack up to the Primera GT, remember being very impressed with one when I went for a go in it, 150 bhp was a big deal back then, with inflation, in terms of weight and power, 150 bhp back then is like 250 is now.
Autocar did a twin test against the P10 Primera Zx in October 1990. In a straight line it had the legs of the 405 quite easily but the victory overall went to the 405 as it just pipped the Primera in the handling stakes.I went through the Peugeot range, 205gti, 205cti, 309gti and the 405 mi16, The only one i had a problem with was the mi16, took it to pug who wanted to replace the engine( the oil light would come on faintly at low revs, took it to a pug indie, who told me the cog on the end of the crankshaft was most likely loose and would need a new one to be safe. £7!!
Loved them all for different reasons but the 309 was the one i would buy again.always felt you could push and it would just take all the abuse thrown at it.
I read somewhere that to keep insurance costs down pug performance tested all the cars 4 up , so was always possible for mags to get much better perf stats in testing.
Loved them all for different reasons but the 309 was the one i would buy again.always felt you could push and it would just take all the abuse thrown at it.
I read somewhere that to keep insurance costs down pug performance tested all the cars 4 up , so was always possible for mags to get much better perf stats in testing.
Thanks for the feedback, guys - I have to say I've three fast 405s and loved them all. The silver Mi16 in the pics was picked up from a Classic car newspaper's 'project cars' section as a non-runner for £50. We disconnected the after-market alarm system and immobiliser, and drove it onto the trailer. Best £50 I ever spent, that car... it even had working air con.
In all seriousness, though, I discounted the 405T16 (and shouldn't have really) as we didn't get it in the UK as an official import. The word when they were new was that they weren't as sweet and balanced as the original - I'd love to find that out for myself. Funnily enough, according to the How Many Left website, there were two in the UK last year (and one the year before that), so someone clearly loves 'em.
The 309GTI 16S - wish we got that in the UK. But all 309s are great cars to drive, so I can only imagine how good they are. If anyone in PH land has one, I'd love to hear from you - there's a nice feature waiting to be written on those!
In all seriousness, though, I discounted the 405T16 (and shouldn't have really) as we didn't get it in the UK as an official import. The word when they were new was that they weren't as sweet and balanced as the original - I'd love to find that out for myself. Funnily enough, according to the How Many Left website, there were two in the UK last year (and one the year before that), so someone clearly loves 'em.
The 309GTI 16S - wish we got that in the UK. But all 309s are great cars to drive, so I can only imagine how good they are. If anyone in PH land has one, I'd love to hear from you - there's a nice feature waiting to be written on those!
djt100 said:
I read somewhere that to keep insurance costs down pug performance tested all the cars 4 up , so was always possible for mags to get much better perf stats in testing.
In the twin test against the Primera mentioned above the performance of the 405 was quite slow. ( 9.4 seconds to 60 and 129 max - well down on the original road test version of 8.0 and 132 ) Autocar queried it with Peugeot who said it was partly the switch to larger 15" wheels ( original was on 14s ) blunting acceleration and also that this later press car was set up to run on unleaded whereas the original test was done on 4-star leaded fuel. Peugeot said that the original Autocar road test figures were "exceptional" and about "as good as could be expected". Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff