Buying an old Land Rover - For Life
Discussion
In my experience if you don't know how to fix cars an old car drive you mad and cost a fortune. if you can fix cars a few months sorting any problems and you will have a very reliable car. They will need a lot more servicing than anything modern though.
my old Landy a the top of wayfarers pass north Wales.
my old Landy a the top of wayfarers pass north Wales.
RESSE said:
A 'Safari Roof' on a SWB - if so I think that is rare?
I had an ex farm series 3 SWB with a safari roof, and also the 4 opening roof vents. He must have had a good year when he ordered it, as it had door linings as well (not by the time I had it though, all rotted out). Reliability is as good as you can afford, although doing a low mileage, once you've fixed something, it stays fixed for longer. Anyway, it's what baling twine was made for.
http://www.mroc.co.uk/ In the Midlands if you fancy competition driving slowly.
Had an early SIII last winter, diesel no overdrive... VERY basic VERY noisy and this coming from someone who drives classics everyday! Owners are very friendly 
but have gone for a V8 disco this time around. Wouldn't really want to use a series everyday again.
With my Stag:
Me playing farmer:
but have gone for a V8 disco this time around. Wouldn't really want to use a series everyday again.With my Stag:
Me playing farmer:
I'd love to do this but, and I'll probably be flamed for this, I'd love to tart the interior and everything (modestly - I'm thinking comfy rather than bling!). Mostly as the idea of trying interior trimming and so on appeals to me. Has anyone done this, I'd love to see photos of their work etc. I'd like to do one with things like a working heater/demister. Less agricultural dash (maybe crushed purple velour with gold stitching... you know, classy like 
)
)If you plan on doing any proper off roading don't get one with leaf springs, the suspension travel won't be enough over the bumps and you can get left without drive to wheels as they're just hanging in mid air. Then you'll get really stuck.
We have a 1986 ex MOD Landrover 90 2.5 diesel and it is wonderfully capable off road, skinny tyres and all.
We have a 1986 ex MOD Landrover 90 2.5 diesel and it is wonderfully capable off road, skinny tyres and all.
For heating in a Landy you wear extra socks. For de-misting you open the front vents and side windows. The cars stay remarkably cool in summer because they have almost no slanting glass. A double skinned Safari roof is free aircon.
My Landy has no interior trim apart from the seats ("deluxe" PVC, yeah right). The noise when driving it was like putting your head in a tin bucket while someone hits it with a hammer. Fabby!
I did some reasonably serious off roading, although no major epics, with my rusty old leaf springs. My friend's sons loved the fact that we could drive the Landy into the sea (we hosed it down afterwards).
My Landy has no interior trim apart from the seats ("deluxe" PVC, yeah right). The noise when driving it was like putting your head in a tin bucket while someone hits it with a hammer. Fabby!
I did some reasonably serious off roading, although no major epics, with my rusty old leaf springs. My friend's sons loved the fact that we could drive the Landy into the sea (we hosed it down afterwards).
Breadvan72 said:
For heating in a Landy you wear extra socks. For de-misting you open the front vents and side windows. The cars stay remarkably cool in summer because they have almost no slanting glass. A double skinned Safari roof is free aircon.
My Landy has no interior trim apart from the seats ("deluxe" PVC, yeah right). The noise when driving it was like putting your head in a tin bucket while someone hits it with a hammer. Fabby!
I did some reasonably serious off roading, although no major epics, with my rusty old leaf springs. My friend's sons loved the fact that we could drive the Landy into the sea (we hosed it down afterwards).
My Landy has no interior trim apart from the seats ("deluxe" PVC, yeah right). The noise when driving it was like putting your head in a tin bucket while someone hits it with a hammer. Fabby!
I did some reasonably serious off roading, although no major epics, with my rusty old leaf springs. My friend's sons loved the fact that we could drive the Landy into the sea (we hosed it down afterwards).
Just about sums up series Landy ownership V8Triumph said:
Breadvan72 said:
For heating in a Landy you wear extra socks. For de-misting you open the front vents and side windows. The cars stay remarkably cool in summer because they have almost no slanting glass. A double skinned Safari roof is free aircon.
My Landy has no interior trim apart from the seats ("deluxe" PVC, yeah right). The noise when driving it was like putting your head in a tin bucket while someone hits it with a hammer. Fabby!
I did some reasonably serious off roading, although no major epics, with my rusty old leaf springs. My friend's sons loved the fact that we could drive the Landy into the sea (we hosed it down afterwards).
My Landy has no interior trim apart from the seats ("deluxe" PVC, yeah right). The noise when driving it was like putting your head in a tin bucket while someone hits it with a hammer. Fabby!
I did some reasonably serious off roading, although no major epics, with my rusty old leaf springs. My friend's sons loved the fact that we could drive the Landy into the sea (we hosed it down afterwards).
Just about sums up series Landy ownership 
LANDYPHIL!!!In the meantime, as a lifelong Series Land Rover owner and driver I shall attempt to answer every post in turn here:
A vintage Land Rover is an utterly fantastic way to learn about amateur spannering. Everything is accessible, mechanical, and plain and simple. Parts and cheap and plentiful (as long as you dont choose an obscure variant!), and the vehicle is rugged and, if well maintained, capable of a lifetime of (fairly) reliable service with only routine servicing and preventative maintenance.
£2k will easily buy a Series 2 or 3, the best way into Land Rover ownership. Don't get hung up on it being tax free though - circa £200 a year is a small price to pay for Series 3 that is 2/3 the age of the average tax exempt Series 2, especially when a 3 has the benefits of a proper dashboard with driver-centred dials and a fully synchro gearbox. Later 3's have the much stronger 5-bearing engine too.
The "costly" hidden parts of these are the ladder chassis - especially the fromt dumb irons and rear crossmember - and the bulkhead, which rots in the topr corners and under the windscreen, as well as the footwells. Check all of these very carefully: tap the chassis with a hammer, you want to hear a metallic ring not a dull thud. Chassis and footwells are relatively easy to repair, the top parts of the bulkhead less so as a lot of stripping out is required and the steel is very very thin so needs a welding genius. All the repair sections for these trouble spots are available for very reasonable prices, or you can opt for galvanised replacements.
Avoid the 1984-onwards coilsprung models as you will not get a decent one for your budget, especially as the cheap ones have the woeful 2.5 litre n/a diesel (sloooooooow) or the turbo version (a reputation for eating big ends). As for the engines in the older models, you will have a choice of 2.25 petrol 4 or the same in diesel. Without a doubt, go for petrol. Set up correctly it is a sewing machine of an engine, as willing as a 60hp engine in a 2 ton brick can be, and driven sensibly will nudge 20mpg. Again, avoid the diesel - it it horrifically noisy, officially less torquey and not much more economical than the petrol and most are utterly knackered. diesel specific parts are also very hard to get hold of. A lot of Series vehicles have been retrofitted, as you say, with the TDI from a Defender or Discovery, either straight in or with the turbo removed to make a DI. These are a matter of personal preference, but I think they ruin the character of a classic Landy, though they are of course much faster and more economical. If you are lead footed, however, they will destroy halfshafts, clutches and even the odd input shaft, and again being a diesel in an old unsoundproofed Landy, eardrums will bleed.
The other common retrofit is the Rover V8 or occasionally a Ford V6. They make a nice noise but the same drivetrain worries still stand. If you do go for one, inspect it carefully as a lot of engine retrofits are bodge jobs - look at a known good example first to get an idea.
As you say, speed, cmfort and handling are things old Landies won't do, however they will bring a smile to your face!
As has been said, avoid the temptation for fat tyres - with no power steering, it makes it far too heavy to drive as well as killing fuel economy. Get some skinny knobblies (ie. max 235mm/7.50in.) and they cut through mud brilliantly too.
A series landy is part time 4wd (unlike the permanent 4wd range rover/defender/disco with centre diffs) and you will have 2 levers in the cockpit. Yellow is 4wd - push down to engage ONLY when on loose surfaces. Using it on tarmac etc winds up the tramsission as there is no centre diff - expensive bangs will result. Red is Hi/Lo range. Putting it in Low range automatically engages 4wd as well, changing back into High from low cancels 4wd (which is also how you get it out of 4wd in high range). There are freewheeling hubs available, however these are only for unlocking the front wheels from the axle when on the road in 2wd to improve fuel economy. Don't use them in 4wd as this puts all the increased torque of low-range through the back axle and may damage halfshafts. The permanent 4x4 stage one v8 mentioned has a Defender style front axle with CV joints that are designed for permanent 4wd road running. Series vehicles however have UJ's in the front axle.
The mention of changing the leaf springs for parabolics is a very good shout. If the springs are more than 10 years old they will either have sagged (usually unevenly giving a nice lean) or rusted up and seized solid (no suspension!). You can either replace directly with multileaf springs (British Springs do fantastic quality replacements), or go for parabolic springs (fewer leaves, separated by little blocks). These give a much more compliant ride though arent quite as good if you intend to load your Landy up to maximum weight every weekend. Leafsprings can be maintained by painting the sides of the leaves witrh a mixture of oil and diesel, then wrapping in denso tape. This keeps the leaves sliding over each other nicely and the tape keeps out dirt and water.
Everyone constantly laments the brakes on landys but it is all rubbish. Well set up drums are more than powerful enough to lock all 4 wheels in the dry, though I will admit the earlier small drums may fade badly. There were 3 types - 10" SLS as fitted to early Short Wheelbase, 11" TLS as fitted to Long wheelbase and later SWB, and extra-wide 11" TLS as fitted to 6-cylinder and V8 versions. 10" SLS versions use a shared fluid resevoir with the clutch, IMO this is dangerous so best modified to separate circuits - though if you find one with the 10" drums, I would highly recommend upgrading it with backplates, cylinders and shoes from the LWB 11". These are what I have on mine and as said, properly bled up they are pretty damn good though obviously not quite comparable to a modern car disc setup. From mid Series 3 onwards, brakes were servoed and this makes them much much easier to use without needing a hefty shove.
There are a selection of lenghts and body styles you have to choose from, each with advantages and disadvantages. Firstly, short wheelbase vs long wheelbase. Long wheelbase (109") is far more versatile (you can carry fully made motorbikes, or sleep in the back of it), however it has the turning circle of a supertanker and you'll be lucky to park one. SWB (88") versions also also slightly cheaper, and of course there's less chassis to rust!
Then there is the choice of bodywork:
- soft top: brilliant on sunny days for convertible motoring, but can also be damp, draughty and even less scrote-proof than normal
- truck cab (pickup): handy for carrying odd shaped loads etc, and warms up inside quickly due to half the interior volume. However, can be cramped inside and your load gets wet
- hard top (van): solid roof gives all the advantages of secure load carrying, plenty of interior space but very noisy due to acting like a big drum skin/hollow metal box. Also, no lining inside so forms condensation and drips on your head during the winter
- station wagon: best visibility due to plethora of windows, relatively posh interior soundproofing/lining and trim, very warm and secure. However more expensive and very heavy (cornering and acceleration are affected)
The gearing in an old Landy is very short - 4 speeds, and comfortable cruising in top is about 50mph. Adding an overdrive raises this 10-15mph or reduces fuel consumption about at the old crusing speed. They also make a good splitter gear when heavily loaded or driving on steep roads, as there is normally a fair hole between 3rd and 4th. You can go for a used original equipment Fairey overdrive (cheap and original), or the much stronger brand new Rocky Mountain Roverdrive (quite pricey).
Another option to raise road speed is to swap the 4.7:1 Series diffs for 3.5:1 Disco/Rangie diffs. The disadvantage with this is that it raises all gearing, so low range is no longer as low for off roading, and also throws the speedo out.
Another word of caution - when buying replacement parts, for gods sake avoid anything made by Britpart. They are by far the shoddiest, worst-fitting, badly made and downright dangerous pattern parts one can possibly buy. Radiators that blow up, steering relays that shear randomly and chassis parts that are all skew-whiff are a few typical examples.
For further advice, I highly recommend joining the OLLR forum: http://ollr.createaforum.com/
Their tech advice is second to none.. just make sure you have a very thick skin!
This is my Series 3, a 1982 (last of the line) 88" Station Wagon which I will never ever sell
No thread on Land Rovers and restoration would be complete without mentioning this thread;
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Well worth a look, the chap has stripped down and rebuilt a 200Tdi.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Well worth a look, the chap has stripped down and rebuilt a 200Tdi.
Err you've pretty much covered the lot there Matt!
As said any times above. If you're willing to maintain a series it's a cheap bit of classic motoring.
Ignore panel condition and if you are confident enough don't worry about running gear if the chassis and bulkhead are mint.
I'd rather have a non runner on a galv chassis that's not finished than a lovely straight panelled piece of period land roverness that has a bulkhead made of cheese.
There's plenty of Series 3's about and the prices have been rising but seem to have calmed just recently. They will only go one way though.
Another reason to go petrol other than obvious bits is that a Series 3 set up well on LPG is a relatively quiet and certainly cheap to run bit of classic motoring.
I used to average 19mpg on LPG and about 21mpg on petrol. As Matt said ran quietly and provided good student transport for a few years.
With regards offroadness any talk that leafsprings limit travel is not strictly true. Shock absorber stroke is the limiting factor providing springs are working correctly. One of mine (my trialer) has a lot more overall travel than a normal Defender 90 and used to compete against coil sprung 80" specials. Suspension was the only thing that wasn't the limiting factor!
Size (ie being an 88" was the bigger issue!)
Oh and the swivel design means the turning circle is compared to later swivel designs rather comically poor.
As for what you can do with them... (if you've got a bit of time spare...)
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My trialer - which in theory I've had since 16.
Rallying one:
Both run 2 and a quarter petrol power. It's a nice long stroke unit and if well looked after can easily crack 200K.
Edited by Landyphil on Friday 26th October 12:45
I bought a Defender instead of the S3 I really wanted, because I need to be able to do distances, including trips to ski resorts. I absolutely love my car. It's the antithesis of a vintage Series (lots of upgrades, modern drivetrain, fat tyres etc) - bit it's my first LR, and I completely love it.
It's not a Series, but I've stuck a picture on here to convince you that you need a Land Rover, of whatever flavour, in your life asap, OP. If I have the choice, I shall never sell mine.
Good hunting!
It's not a Series, but I've stuck a picture on here to convince you that you need a Land Rover, of whatever flavour, in your life asap, OP. If I have the choice, I shall never sell mine.
Good hunting!
Edited by Harry Flashman on Friday 26th October 12:40
. Every other car on the road round me is a Disco, starting to think I should have bought a petrol series instead now everyone has said they're much quieter ... at least the Disco has 8 cylinders, eh? Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff