RE: Chris Harris video: Deltawing drive
Discussion
'Why won't they let it race?' asks Harris. Simple - they're frightened. Frightened of something that looks totally different to anything else. Frightened that it may blow the established competition into next week. Above all, frightened that individuality may upset a cosy status quo that, in the name of commercial interest, has steadily subjugated every formula outside of F1 - and ensured that even that 'pinnacle' of motorsport complies with a doctrine of homogenuity that denies its roots as a home for forward looking and exciting innovation.
PiB said:
Perhaps they could start building karts this way too.
I would be up for that in a heartbeat, can you imagine a mini PH karting event or series.I think the powers that be, don't want the "apple cart" to be toppled over.
I applaud you Ben, wish you all the success & credit you deserve, thinking outside of the box should always be celebrated
Crickey, it's all getting a bit tin foil hatter in here!
Race series need rules, plain and simple. Otherwise it would be a free-for-all. Generally speaking, a given race series is about finding the best driver in a given class of car. If the rules were thrown wide open, then the deltawing would find itself at the back of the grid. (Because once you open up unregulated underbody aero (i.e. groundeffect) then the car with the biggest planiform area wins (force = pressure x area)). As it stands the Deltawing occupies a nice little niche, where it has been allowed to skirt the regulations, and demonstrate that it is possible to go nearly as fast as a car built to the regulations with a different approach.
I don't think it's exactly a revolution to realise that a light car, with low drag, needs less power to go fast than a heavy one with high drag.
Race series need rules, plain and simple. Otherwise it would be a free-for-all. Generally speaking, a given race series is about finding the best driver in a given class of car. If the rules were thrown wide open, then the deltawing would find itself at the back of the grid. (Because once you open up unregulated underbody aero (i.e. groundeffect) then the car with the biggest planiform area wins (force = pressure x area)). As it stands the Deltawing occupies a nice little niche, where it has been allowed to skirt the regulations, and demonstrate that it is possible to go nearly as fast as a car built to the regulations with a different approach.
I don't think it's exactly a revolution to realise that a light car, with low drag, needs less power to go fast than a heavy one with high drag.
JakobusVdL said:
Thanks Jeremy C & Bsdnazz, that is really helpful background and information.
It's a pleasure!JakobusVdL said:
It looks like the delta wing project is achieving it's objectives pretty quickly.
However, if it doesn't conform to the LMP rules, does that mean it only gets to take part in the ALMS by special dispensation? If so, I'd guess that it won't be allowed to become too sucessful, wouldn't the Series would just pull the pin on the dispensation? or is it officially in the series now?
Eitherway, a pretty interesting experiment, can't wait to see how it goes from here
The ALMS are able to make some of their own rules and there's a plan to have the DW included in the 2013 ALMS championship. A Google for "alms delta wing 2013" comes up with a good number of results.However, if it doesn't conform to the LMP rules, does that mean it only gets to take part in the ALMS by special dispensation? If so, I'd guess that it won't be allowed to become too sucessful, wouldn't the Series would just pull the pin on the dispensation? or is it officially in the series now?
Eitherway, a pretty interesting experiment, can't wait to see how it goes from here
Max_Torque said:
Crickey, it's all getting a bit tin foil hatter in here!
Race series need rules, plain and simple. Otherwise it would be a free-for-all. Generally speaking, a given race series is about finding the best driver in a given class of car. If the rules were thrown wide open, then the deltawing would find itself at the back of the grid. (Because once you open up unregulated underbody aero (i.e. groundeffect) then the car with the biggest planiform area wins (force = pressure x area)). As it stands the Deltawing occupies a nice little niche, where it has been allowed to skirt the regulations, and demonstrate that it is possible to go nearly as fast as a car built to the regulations with a different approach.
I don't think it's exactly a revolution to realise that a light car, with low drag, needs less power to go fast than a heavy one with high drag.
I'd like to see an open formula based on a fuel efficiency using a flow restrictor. This would limit the maximum BHP available (say to 300BHP) but let designers do pretty much what ever they wanted to make a fast car. There would need to be some rules for safety (driver/marshall/spectator protection) and a broad definition of what makes a car (4 wheels, piston engine) and then see what develops!Race series need rules, plain and simple. Otherwise it would be a free-for-all. Generally speaking, a given race series is about finding the best driver in a given class of car. If the rules were thrown wide open, then the deltawing would find itself at the back of the grid. (Because once you open up unregulated underbody aero (i.e. groundeffect) then the car with the biggest planiform area wins (force = pressure x area)). As it stands the Deltawing occupies a nice little niche, where it has been allowed to skirt the regulations, and demonstrate that it is possible to go nearly as fast as a car built to the regulations with a different approach.
I don't think it's exactly a revolution to realise that a light car, with low drag, needs less power to go fast than a heavy one with high drag.
Max_Torque said:
Crickey, it's all getting a bit tin foil hatter in here!
Race series need rules, plain and simple. Otherwise it would be a free-for-all. Generally speaking, a given race series is about finding the best driver in a given class of car. If the rules were thrown wide open, then the deltawing would find itself at the back of the grid. (Because once you open up unregulated underbody aero (i.e. groundeffect) then the car with the biggest planiform area wins (force = pressure x area)). As it stands the Deltawing occupies a nice little niche, where it has been allowed to skirt the regulations, and demonstrate that it is possible to go nearly as fast as a car built to the regulations with a different approach.
Modern race cars do use ground effect - the rear diffusers are all about sucking the air out from under the car.Race series need rules, plain and simple. Otherwise it would be a free-for-all. Generally speaking, a given race series is about finding the best driver in a given class of car. If the rules were thrown wide open, then the deltawing would find itself at the back of the grid. (Because once you open up unregulated underbody aero (i.e. groundeffect) then the car with the biggest planiform area wins (force = pressure x area)). As it stands the Deltawing occupies a nice little niche, where it has been allowed to skirt the regulations, and demonstrate that it is possible to go nearly as fast as a car built to the regulations with a different approach.
Max_Torque said:
I don't think it's exactly a revolution to realise that a light car, with low drag, needs less power to go fast than a heavy one with high drag.
Looking at the Petit Le Mans's race, what's interesting about the DW is that it lapped at times comparable to the much more powerful P2 class cars. The DW is fast down the straights and round the corners. With comparable BHP the DW would have easily beaten the P2 AND P1 cars.IMHO, this makes heavy, high drag, high BHP car look like a dead end. Go in a different direction (i.e the DW's) and you can go even faster.
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