RE: A45 AMG (not) driven
Discussion
mat777 said:
That's an A-class? Thats f
king massive! Why are even the small hatchbacks these days so huge?
How can you tell how big it is?king massive! Why are even the small hatchbacks these days so huge?I heard one of these at <undisclosed location> recently and can confirm the pre-production ones sound ridiculous. Very loud and very cool. Like a slightly muffled rally car.
The M135i is not a bargain. It probably cost 5% more than a basic diesel model to build but its price is signficantly higher. Just because it's cheaper than some extortionately priced rivals does not mean it is a bargain.
It also won't sell very well because it looks dreadful. Mercedes seriously missed a trick by not jazzing up the styling of the AMG model - people generally buy cars like this for their badge, appearance and performance stats, very few because they're "great drivers' cars" - what proportion of AMG A-Classes are you going to find on race tracks?!
It also won't sell very well because it looks dreadful. Mercedes seriously missed a trick by not jazzing up the styling of the AMG model - people generally buy cars like this for their badge, appearance and performance stats, very few because they're "great drivers' cars" - what proportion of AMG A-Classes are you going to find on race tracks?!
TTGuy said:
The M135i is not a bargain. It probably cost 5% more than a basic diesel model to build but its price is signficantly higher. Just because it's cheaper than some extortionately priced rivals does not mean it is a bargain.
It also won't sell very well because it looks dreadful. Mercedes seriously missed a trick by not jazzing up the styling of the AMG model - people generally buy cars like this for their badge, appearance and performance stats, very few because they're "great drivers' cars" - what proportion of AMG A-Classes are you going to find on race tracks?!
The price of a car isn't based on how much it costs to manufacture.It also won't sell very well because it looks dreadful. Mercedes seriously missed a trick by not jazzing up the styling of the AMG model - people generally buy cars like this for their badge, appearance and performance stats, very few because they're "great drivers' cars" - what proportion of AMG A-Classes are you going to find on race tracks?!
405dogvan said:
Surely motor manufacturers don't bother with surveys since Ford's massive surveying of customers led to them making the Mk5 Escort - a car entirely based on their huge efforts to engage with customers and worse than it's predecessor in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY.
Top of that survey was - IIRC - "The car should start within 1.5 seconds of turning the key". Yes, you guessed it, people wanted their car to WORK.
Presumably, replies also included "the seat should be comfier than my sofa" (but not necessarily bolted-in - the early Orion's I drove wasn't!) and "as a mother I'd like the driver's seat to face backwards so I can check my children without neck strain - I can easily glance at the road as often as I normally do in a mirror"
Customers NEVER know what they want and should NEVER be asked about it. A successful product is one the manufacturer convinces people IS what they want - by insinuating every aspect of it's form and function as if the customer already wanted that anyway.
So much so that the cosmetics industry's chemists are often tasked with producing things invented by marketing people - such as "can we put more moisture into our moisturiser - we're thinking "Hydralising"" and so on.
So AMG talking about what a customer 'will put up with' here is really just using Monkey to pre-empt any comments like "the low-speed ride is only useful for releasing the pent-up frustrations in 17-year-old boys - but the seat fabric is easily washable so that's ok".
Exactly!!!... Asked what they want most will want more of the same, what they already have. When they get it they realise it's not what they wanted at all... Maybe a case of be careful what you wish for! Present people with new ideas, new thinking and most will buy into it either new or used.Top of that survey was - IIRC - "The car should start within 1.5 seconds of turning the key". Yes, you guessed it, people wanted their car to WORK.
Presumably, replies also included "the seat should be comfier than my sofa" (but not necessarily bolted-in - the early Orion's I drove wasn't!) and "as a mother I'd like the driver's seat to face backwards so I can check my children without neck strain - I can easily glance at the road as often as I normally do in a mirror"
Customers NEVER know what they want and should NEVER be asked about it. A successful product is one the manufacturer convinces people IS what they want - by insinuating every aspect of it's form and function as if the customer already wanted that anyway.
So much so that the cosmetics industry's chemists are often tasked with producing things invented by marketing people - such as "can we put more moisture into our moisturiser - we're thinking "Hydralising"" and so on.
So AMG talking about what a customer 'will put up with' here is really just using Monkey to pre-empt any comments like "the low-speed ride is only useful for releasing the pent-up frustrations in 17-year-old boys - but the seat fabric is easily washable so that's ok".
I think it looks pretty good actually and infinitely better than the abomination that is the BMW 1 series, seriously I could have nightmares about that car. Let's hope they make it sound half-way decent (without the use of electronic sound boxes please) and that it drives well too.
The one thing the M135i has got going for it is the pricing though, at £30k it's a bargain, I suspect Merc won't be able to get anywhere near that though and this will be £40k plus which is a shame as that's too expensive for a hatchback.
The one thing the M135i has got going for it is the pricing though, at £30k it's a bargain, I suspect Merc won't be able to get anywhere near that though and this will be £40k plus which is a shame as that's too expensive for a hatchback.
Ugly, boring, bland.
Cupra/Leon/Golf/A3 impersonation.
2.0lt engine? Spartan/ugly/cheap interior?
It looks like Merc bought the tooling and presses from the Audi A3 production like in 2001 and started making them with different badges & lights.
To mo 'AMG' really means very little nowadays, the 'Black' series are above it. It's more like BMWs 'M-sport' line, add some badges, upgraded trim and add a few options by default.
Cupra/Leon/Golf/A3 impersonation.
2.0lt engine? Spartan/ugly/cheap interior?
It looks like Merc bought the tooling and presses from the Audi A3 production like in 2001 and started making them with different badges & lights.
To mo 'AMG' really means very little nowadays, the 'Black' series are above it. It's more like BMWs 'M-sport' line, add some badges, upgraded trim and add a few options by default.
I like, but it somehow lacks the charm of the previous generation model I think. The last gen A200 Turbo is still on my shopping list I love the uniqueness of them, but don't think I'd have this over the equiv Audi/ BMW. Was hoping it would be more like the B55 AMG 'one off' they made last year - http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mercedes-benz/...
Dave Hedgehog said:
Chapppers said:
How can you tell how big it is?
I heard one of these at <undisclosed location> recently and can confirm the pre-production ones sound ridiculous. Very loud and very cool. Like a slightly muffled rally car.
i definitely want then I heard one of these at <undisclosed location> recently and can confirm the pre-production ones sound ridiculous. Very loud and very cool. Like a slightly muffled rally car.
TTGuy said:
The M135i is not a bargain. It probably cost 5% more than a basic diesel model to build but its price is signficantly higher. Just because it's cheaper than some extortionately priced rivals does not mean it is a bargain.
It also won't sell very well because it looks dreadful. Mercedes seriously missed a trick by not jazzing up the styling of the AMG model - people generally buy cars like this for their badge, appearance and performance stats, very few because they're "great drivers' cars" - what proportion of AMG A-Classes are you going to find on race tracks?!
Its quite undenyable that the M135i is a bargain. If its 5% more than a basic diesel model to build then surely the other manufacturers should sort their process so they can be competative. As it stands, the RS3 and A45 AMG will compare for performance, but won't even be close on price. Cars are compared on price+running costs, a 3year plan if you will.It also won't sell very well because it looks dreadful. Mercedes seriously missed a trick by not jazzing up the styling of the AMG model - people generally buy cars like this for their badge, appearance and performance stats, very few because they're "great drivers' cars" - what proportion of AMG A-Classes are you going to find on race tracks?!
For example would you compare the Audi TT tdi to the 120d (because they have very similar power outputs) or the 123d (as they have very similar prices) Common sense dictates you would compare by price.
Otispunkmeyer said:
350 bhp from a 2.0l four?
Don't shout at me, but weren't the last (recent) cars with this sort of power from that size of engine some Mitsubishi Evo's that needed a service every 5 yards?
The engine was developed by there F1 engine department in the UK! Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains.Don't shout at me, but weren't the last (recent) cars with this sort of power from that size of engine some Mitsubishi Evo's that needed a service every 5 yards?
Utterly pointless;
- Not 'showy' enough to say I'm fast
- Too expensive when looking at alternatives
- Not big enough
- Not small enough
- Girly car
- A far too powerful shopping trolley
- I'll pass.
The type of person buying this will already have an ML55 AMG / E-Class AMG or C - AMG and as such won't bother.
PS: "Grandmother" and "vinegar strokes" is quite the most bizarre bit of editorial in a car review.
- Not 'showy' enough to say I'm fast
- Too expensive when looking at alternatives
- Not big enough
- Not small enough
- Girly car
- A far too powerful shopping trolley
- I'll pass.
The type of person buying this will already have an ML55 AMG / E-Class AMG or C - AMG and as such won't bother.
PS: "Grandmother" and "vinegar strokes" is quite the most bizarre bit of editorial in a car review.
treetops said:
Utterly pointless;
- Not 'showy' enough to say I'm fast
- Too expensive when looking at alternatives
- Not big enough
- Not small enough
- Girly car
- A far too powerful shopping trolley
- I'll pass.
The type of person buying this will already have an ML55 AMG / E-Class AMG or C - AMG and as such won't bother.
PS: "Grandmother" and "vinegar strokes" is quite the most bizarre bit of editorial in a car review.
how about scooby / evo drivers who- Not 'showy' enough to say I'm fast
- Too expensive when looking at alternatives
- Not big enough
- Not small enough
- Girly car
- A far too powerful shopping trolley
- I'll pass.
The type of person buying this will already have an ML55 AMG / E-Class AMG or C - AMG and as such won't bother.
PS: "Grandmother" and "vinegar strokes" is quite the most bizarre bit of editorial in a car review.
- No longer want to drive a barry/chav wagon
- Want an interior of substantially higher quality than a 20 year old mini cab
- Value a low profile looking car so as to not draw attention to the BiB
- But still want to go bonkers fast in the wet
I was looking at this as a replacement for the Evo X next year as initial reports were of £30-32k, but price estimations just keep creeping up. If it was Golf R money, I'd be very tempted. But Autocar are saying £36k plus an extra £3k for a (performance pack) which seems to be removal of the speed limiter and, I guess, some tinsel. At £39k, I'm not remotely interested. That's where a youthful and low mileage IS-F or XF-R takes over.
Ali_T said:
I was looking at this as a replacement for the Evo X next year as initial reports were of £30-32k, but price estimations just keep creeping up. If it was Golf R money, I'd be very tempted. But Autocar are saying £36k plus an extra £3k for a (performance pack) which seems to be removal of the speed limiter and, I guess, some tinsel. At £39k, I'm not remotely interested. That's where a youthful and low mileage IS-F or XF-R takes over.
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