RE: PH Fleet: Porsche Panamera Diesel
Discussion
J4CKO said:
Yep, 20k and it is not knackered, that is some acheivement for such a cheap car......
My 944's interior is still in reasonable shape and that is 21 years old and has 116,000 miles, ok it smells like th London Dungeon but its all there, apart from the clock, 944's are like Casinos, they never have a working clock.
Think its a journo thing, like in Autocar where they say that a car still feels tight despite 40,000 miles.
You know, I was thinking this as well and thinking, we got a Demonstrator E92 330 95K later and lots of European trips it stills looks and feels great.My 944's interior is still in reasonable shape and that is 21 years old and has 116,000 miles, ok it smells like th London Dungeon but its all there, apart from the clock, 944's are like Casinos, they never have a working clock.
Think its a journo thing, like in Autocar where they say that a car still feels tight despite 40,000 miles.
What manufacturer would give a long term demo car to the press that would fall apart after being run ragged by umpteen car journos?
Is 20k "Journo" miles akin to 275K normal user miles? As I understand it CH himself said Press Fleet Cars got a crazy amount of servicing between "assignments".
All confused, need beer
mik_jg said:
JS100 said:
mik_jg said:
Fantastic thing. Generally people who criticise vehicles like this so strongly are those who can't afford them.
Sorry but your comment is utterly groundless and stupid IMO. The fact that the car is a f*cking ugly, fat, slow, over-priced, heavy old barge probably has more to do with it I would hypothesise...
As for the remainder of your hypothesis, I would challenge your description of the vehicle in question as you have not made a direct comparison between the other vehicles available to a prospective customer, ergo it cannot be a valid argument.
Stand by my description of it, but you are entitled to think otherwise. Help me out in understanding what it is you think the Panamera is trying to be and I might, time pending, be able to help you with your quest. Personally I would not want to take the liberty of assuming it has direct comparators to anything in fear of grossly offending someone who doesn't deserve the association to the monstrosity.
Edited by JS100 on Friday 2nd November 14:09
JS100 said:
mik_jg said:
JS100 said:
mik_jg said:
Fantastic thing. Generally people who criticise vehicles like this so strongly are those who can't afford them.
Sorry but your comment is utterly groundless and stupid IMO. The fact that the car is a f*cking ugly, fat, slow, over-priced, heavy old barge probably has more to do with it I would hypothesise...
As for the remainder of your hypothesis, I would challenge your description of the vehicle in question as you have not made a direct comparison between the other vehicles available to a prospective customer, ergo it cannot be a valid argument.
Stand by my description of it, but you are entitled to think otherwise. Help me out in understanding what it is you think the Panamera is trying to be and I might, time pending, be able to help you with your quest. Personally I would not want to take the liberty of assuming it has direct comparators to anything in fear of grossly offending someone who doesn't deserve the association to the monstorsity.
The article is written by someone who has lived with this particular car for several months and subjected it to the kind of driving that it was designed for. He has also experienced the other, higher powered models in the range and used this experience to come up with the conclusion that this diesel model a very fine vehicle indeed. I do not dispute this as it's a well-informed opinion. Mr Harris goes on to mention others who have experienced this car and been very impressed by it, despite not being enamored by the looks.
If you cannot understand what this car is trying to be then I respect your opinions even less. These should be obvious to someone with an interest in cars that transcends the mere "ooh it's a lovely colour" mentality and understands the subtler aspects, such as brand ethos, engineering integrity and marketing nous. It is meant to make extra profit in a new (for the manufacturer) and booming market sector for a globally-respected manufacturer of sports cars, whilst retaining many of the core values of the brand. As such it had to have recognisably-Porsche styling, which it does. Like the original and commercially-successful Cayenne, it may not be as elegantly designed as other vehicles on the market, but it will never be mistaken for another brand from the key visual impact points.
As for the rest of the design brief, it had to have the ability to carry four normal-sized adults long distances at speed, in comfort, in a luxurious environment, while offering the driver an entertaining driving experience, and all aimed at the Porsche buyer who doesn't want an SUV or a normal saloon and would have had to look to other premium marques to fulfill these criteria; in short, a 4-seater sports car. Mr Harris concludes that it covers those briefs well, by the way. Based on said criteria, one would assume natural rivals for the Panamera to include the Mercedes CLS, BMW GranCoupe, Aston Rapide, Maserati Quattroporte, Audi A7 and suchlike, assumption borne out by many comparison tests carried out across the motoring press.
I hugely respect the Panamera for what it is. Having driven it I have to say it's a very fine vehicle indeed. However, I wouldn't buy one. Why? I don't need a four-seater sports car and I'm not a Porsche fan. Hell, I'm not even that sold on the looks. It's like the wonderful-in-every-respect girl who I just don't fancy; just not for me but that doesn't stop me respecting her core values and worth to someone else. You may have a very strong anti-Panamera agenda, but don't let that blinker you to the fact that it's very good at what it sets out to be.
Had one as a loan car for a couple of days and couldn't believe how good it was (even in diseasel spec). Only really noticed the weight when I went into corners a bit quick and that just was because I hadn't realised I was travelling that fast.. the interior really is a nice place to be (although that's primarily because you can't see what it looks like from inside)
Would I buy one? No. The fact that it looks so fugly seals it for me.
However if I wanted to get to the south of France in a hurry I can't think of a car I'd rather be driving.
Would I buy one? No. The fact that it looks so fugly seals it for me.
However if I wanted to get to the south of France in a hurry I can't think of a car I'd rather be driving.
Martin 480 Turbo said:
Sounds mad for a diesel, I like that
etc and the most comfortable and welcoming was the Panny ......... by far........ i would, but as said in a couple of years 
tommy vercetti said:
R66STU said:
Interesting car but not for me.
+1. Still can't get over the looks. The front end looks ok, but the rear is disgusting. It's like it gets uglier and uglier every time I see pics of itSorry but i just don't get this car, Audi etc do this kind of thing and they look nicer. A porsche should not be a diesel saloon or 4 x 4, why can't all the manufacturers stick to what they specialised in?
I cant blame them for making them if people want them - I'm trying to be kind here - it s just such an ugly great hulk of a thing.
Perhaps its a great car, but I cant see past the looks and the image of the Porsche badge on such a car.
Its the same over at BMW now, I associate them with well balanced saloons and coupes, but now you can buy all sorts of niche things from them and as a result the badge has lost some credability with me personally.
I cant blame them for making them if people want them - I'm trying to be kind here - it s just such an ugly great hulk of a thing.
Perhaps its a great car, but I cant see past the looks and the image of the Porsche badge on such a car.
Its the same over at BMW now, I associate them with well balanced saloons and coupes, but now you can buy all sorts of niche things from them and as a result the badge has lost some credability with me personally.
mik_jg said:
JS100 said:
mik_jg said:
JS100 said:
mik_jg said:
Fantastic thing. Generally people who criticise vehicles like this so strongly are those who can't afford them.
Sorry but your comment is utterly groundless and stupid IMO. The fact that the car is a f*cking ugly, fat, slow, over-priced, heavy old barge probably has more to do with it I would hypothesise...
As for the remainder of your hypothesis, I would challenge your description of the vehicle in question as you have not made a direct comparison between the other vehicles available to a prospective customer, ergo it cannot be a valid argument.
Stand by my description of it, but you are entitled to think otherwise. Help me out in understanding what it is you think the Panamera is trying to be and I might, time pending, be able to help you with your quest. Personally I would not want to take the liberty of assuming it has direct comparators to anything in fear of grossly offending someone who doesn't deserve the association to the monstorsity.
The article is written by someone who has lived with this particular car for several months and subjected it to the kind of driving that it was designed for. He has also experienced the other, higher powered models in the range and used this experience to come up with the conclusion that this diesel model a very fine vehicle indeed. I do not dispute this as it's a well-informed opinion. Mr Harris goes on to mention others who have experienced this car and been very impressed by it, despite not being enamored by the looks.
If you cannot understand what this car is trying to be then I respect your opinions even less. These should be obvious to someone with an interest in cars that transcends the mere "ooh it's a lovely colour" mentality and understands the subtler aspects, such as brand ethos, engineering integrity and marketing nous. It is meant to make extra profit in a new (for the manufacturer) and booming market sector for a globally-respected manufacturer of sports cars, whilst retaining many of the core values of the brand. As such it had to have recognisably-Porsche styling, which it does. Like the original and commercially-successful Cayenne, it may not be as elegantly designed as other vehicles on the market, but it will never be mistaken for another brand from the key visual impact points.
As for the rest of the design brief, it had to have the ability to carry four normal-sized adults long distances at speed, in comfort, in a luxurious environment, while offering the driver an entertaining driving experience, and all aimed at the Porsche buyer who doesn't want an SUV or a normal saloon and would have had to look to other premium marques to fulfill these criteria; in short, a 4-seater sports car. Mr Harris concludes that it covers those briefs well, by the way. Based on said criteria, one would assume natural rivals for the Panamera to include the Mercedes CLS, BMW GranCoupe, Aston Rapide, Maserati Quattroporte, Audi A7 and suchlike, assumption borne out by many comparison tests carried out across the motoring press.
I hugely respect the Panamera for what it is. Having driven it I have to say it's a very fine vehicle indeed. However, I wouldn't buy one. Why? I don't need a four-seater sports car and I'm not a Porsche fan. Hell, I'm not even that sold on the looks. It's like the wonderful-in-every-respect girl who I just don't fancy; just not for me but that doesn't stop me respecting her core values and worth to someone else. You may have a very strong anti-Panamera agenda, but don't let that blinker you to the fact that it's very good at what it sets out to be.
Personally, I expected the Panamera to be ugly based upon all I had read about it. Who didn't? I guess I fall in the unpolarized middle ground because I think they are neat looking. I don't think they are ugly at all, but I can see why many do, and I sure don't think they are exceptionally pretty, but I'd go that direction over ugly.
There is a term in sailing called "row away looks" which refers to that bit where you are heading away from your vessel and can't help looking back cos it's such a beautiful thing and holy hell you own it!
This to an extent does determine the popularity of certain boats - so when one of the premium manufacturers went a bit devicive with their yacht, though most regarded it as a brilliant bit of kit, the "yee gods look at that" factor seemed to hasten a fairly brisk move back to a less contentious look.
So I don't doubt the brilliance of the Porsche as a car, but as in fairness you pay silly money for something that does the same job as a Passat 95% of the time, you have to question the wisdom of the styling.
I imagine the car is a success and due to techno sharing likely as profitable as the equally contentious Cayenne, but how many more would they have sold if it had been something you went to the garrage to look at, and how much more yield per unit could have been achieved. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - but fashion is dictated by the mass view and being deliberately obtuse about meeting that fashionable stance has seldom been of much benefit to profitability, so while some may find it glorious, it is perhaps the majority that determine it's position!
And before you ask - no I haven't a pot to piddle in, but I'd love to have one.
This to an extent does determine the popularity of certain boats - so when one of the premium manufacturers went a bit devicive with their yacht, though most regarded it as a brilliant bit of kit, the "yee gods look at that" factor seemed to hasten a fairly brisk move back to a less contentious look.
So I don't doubt the brilliance of the Porsche as a car, but as in fairness you pay silly money for something that does the same job as a Passat 95% of the time, you have to question the wisdom of the styling.
I imagine the car is a success and due to techno sharing likely as profitable as the equally contentious Cayenne, but how many more would they have sold if it had been something you went to the garrage to look at, and how much more yield per unit could have been achieved. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - but fashion is dictated by the mass view and being deliberately obtuse about meeting that fashionable stance has seldom been of much benefit to profitability, so while some may find it glorious, it is perhaps the majority that determine it's position!
And before you ask - no I haven't a pot to piddle in, but I'd love to have one.
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