RE: Renault and Caterham join forces
Discussion
marshalla said:
Neither Renault nor Lotus has any direct input to the car from Enstone (except for the engine).
So, what have lotus or renault ever done for us? Well there was the name. Yep, yep, the name. But what else? Well there was the engine. Ok, ok, apart from the name and the engine what have they done for us.....??otolith said:
And how much RWD work have Renault done in the last six months - the last year - the last decade? How many engineers who worked on the spyder are still there, in hands-on jobs? Compared to Caterham which does nothing else but build rear drive sports cars?
The factory in Dieppe also develops and builds a number of race cars - Formula Renault and Megane V6 for example. So I reckon they are pretty au fait with RWD. Plus, not forgetting the Clio V6. jbi said:
Bye Bye caterham...
couldn't have picked a worse partner
How so? Is that based on Renaultsport's fantastic reputation for warm/hot hatches, great engines and their ability to make cars that are serious fun? Or is it based on that age old 'Renault's are always unreliable' bcouldn't have picked a worse partner
ks?RenOHH said:
How so? Is that based on Renaultsport's fantastic reputation for warm/hot hatches, great engines and their ability to make cars that are serious fun? Or is it based on that age old 'Renault's are always unreliable' bks?
I thought it an odd remark. ks?Renault do appear to have taken their ownership of the Alpine brand and its heritage seriously and respectfully over the years and I can't imagine this will change. They would be crucified at home if they ballsed up the creation of an Alpine.
As a company they may build some flimsy kit but the evidence exists that they are capable of producing a good car when they need to.
Besides, let's not forget that English and French engineers when working together have built some of the most important engineering feats of their time.
Pesty said:
Ahhh ok well that sort of makes sense. But If caterham have all this money and all these Lotus engineers why don't they make their own Lotus competitor.
They need a "heritage" name - preferably one which has historically been a direct competitor to Lotus (there may be some far-east honour and face-saving element to this).RenOHH said:
jbi said:
Bye Bye caterham...
couldn't have picked a worse partner
How so? Is that based on Renaultsport's fantastic reputation for warm/hot hatches, great engines and their ability to make cars that are serious fun? Or is it based on that age old 'Renault's are always unreliable' bcouldn't have picked a worse partner
ks?Dynamically pretty good but build quality of a chinese taxi
My take:
Renault people (or some management consultants) identify the Dieppe factory and associated cars as not profitable. New RS CLio is then neutered so it can be made on the standard production line.
Problem: French workers have very big boules, closing even a small site is going to be a major pain.
Meanwhile, the Alpine rebirth project gets very positive feedback. This could be used to keep Dieppe people busy, but does not make financial sense in the short term, risk to high -- so can't be done say the managers.
Solution: you look for a partner with *money*. Ideally one that has an interest in advanced manufacturing processes, a factory + workers and perhaps a desire to source parts from a major manufacturer.
Partnering with Lotus would have been the other way around. Need a factory, a well established alloy tub chassis process and the people to build it? Perfect fit.
Personal conclusion so far:
- st. I love Lotus. Renault/Nissan/Infiniti would have been a nice fit for a big player partner. Looks like they don't want or, more likely, can't afford it. Not good.
- Hang on to your Dieppe made Clios. Special cars, won't come back.
Renault people (or some management consultants) identify the Dieppe factory and associated cars as not profitable. New RS CLio is then neutered so it can be made on the standard production line.
Problem: French workers have very big boules, closing even a small site is going to be a major pain.
Meanwhile, the Alpine rebirth project gets very positive feedback. This could be used to keep Dieppe people busy, but does not make financial sense in the short term, risk to high -- so can't be done say the managers.
Solution: you look for a partner with *money*. Ideally one that has an interest in advanced manufacturing processes, a factory + workers and perhaps a desire to source parts from a major manufacturer.
Partnering with Lotus would have been the other way around. Need a factory, a well established alloy tub chassis process and the people to build it? Perfect fit.
Personal conclusion so far:
- s
t. I love Lotus. Renault/Nissan/Infiniti would have been a nice fit for a big player partner. Looks like they don't want or, more likely, can't afford it. Not good.- Hang on to your Dieppe made Clios. Special cars, won't come back.
Kolbenkopp said:
My take:
Renault people (or some management consultants) identify the Dieppe factory and associated cars as not profitable. New RS CLio is then neutered so it can be made on the standard production line.
Problem: French workers have very big boules, closing even a small site is going to be a major pain.
Meanwhile, the Alpine rebirth project gets very positive feedback. This could be used to keep Dieppe people busy, but does not make financial sense in the short term, risk to high -- so can't be done say the managers.
Solution: you look for a partner with *money*. Ideally one that has an interest in advanced manufacturing processes, a factory + workers and perhaps a desire to source parts from a major manufacturer.
Partnering with Lotus would have been the other way around. Need a factory, a well established alloy tub chassis process and the people to build it? Perfect fit.
Personal conclusion so far:
- st. I love Lotus. Renault/Nissan/Infiniti would have been a nice fit for a big player partner. Looks like they don't want or, more likely, can't afford it. Not good.
- Hang on to your Dieppe made Clios. Special cars, won't come back.
I can go with that.Renault people (or some management consultants) identify the Dieppe factory and associated cars as not profitable. New RS CLio is then neutered so it can be made on the standard production line.
Problem: French workers have very big boules, closing even a small site is going to be a major pain.
Meanwhile, the Alpine rebirth project gets very positive feedback. This could be used to keep Dieppe people busy, but does not make financial sense in the short term, risk to high -- so can't be done say the managers.
Solution: you look for a partner with *money*. Ideally one that has an interest in advanced manufacturing processes, a factory + workers and perhaps a desire to source parts from a major manufacturer.
Partnering with Lotus would have been the other way around. Need a factory, a well established alloy tub chassis process and the people to build it? Perfect fit.
Personal conclusion so far:
- s
t. I love Lotus. Renault/Nissan/Infiniti would have been a nice fit for a big player partner. Looks like they don't want or, more likely, can't afford it. Not good.- Hang on to your Dieppe made Clios. Special cars, won't come back.
IMO Renault are not building the Alpine because they want to, they are building it because they need to. A company in Renaults current financial state, that is slashing it's model line up in the UK to survive, does not suddenly launch a vantity program such as the Alpine because they want to.
450Nick said:
Raven Flyer said:
It takes a rare skill to come up with something as ugly as that A110-50.
Really?? I think its absolutely beautiful - I'd have one in a heartbeat if it were available and I could afford it.. Mine with a Judd V8 please 
So I take it that means this car won't be using the chassis from the Evora. That was mentioned a while back on here, I seem to remember.
Over here on French telly last night on TF1, they went over the top on this. Renaults decision to come back and make Alpine great again. Nothing was mentioned about Caterham putting in 50% though. Not a sausage...
Over here on French telly last night on TF1, they went over the top on this. Renaults decision to come back and make Alpine great again. Nothing was mentioned about Caterham putting in 50% though. Not a sausage...
kambites said:
bosscerbera said:
kambites said:
Interesting, it'd be nice to see another competitor in the Ginetta G40 sort of market if that's the way they go.
Why? Who's buying them?Projecting low volumes and £40-£50K price will be a kiss of death.
Forget about all these supercars that no one can afford.
VW has shown that there is mass(ish) market demand for something a bit more specialised than your hot hatch with its Blue Sport / Concept-R, but - as always for them - they didn't have the balls to follow it through.
What about a reworking of the RenaultSport Spider, to go head to head with the MK4 MX5 / New Alfa and the, presumed, roadster version of the BRX / FT86?
Could be a last gasp for these types of cars, before they are regulated out of existence...
I guess it boils down to how much of the Renault drivetrain is repackagable...
VW has shown that there is mass(ish) market demand for something a bit more specialised than your hot hatch with its Blue Sport / Concept-R, but - as always for them - they didn't have the balls to follow it through.
What about a reworking of the RenaultSport Spider, to go head to head with the MK4 MX5 / New Alfa and the, presumed, roadster version of the BRX / FT86?
Could be a last gasp for these types of cars, before they are regulated out of existence...
I guess it boils down to how much of the Renault drivetrain is repackagable...
I agree with Kolbenkopp - This is all about Renault and always will be. The press statement says it all - Alpine DNA - that leaves Caterham as the 'poor relation' in this deal in my opinion, as it will be near on impossible to create a platform that can deliver on two sets of brand identities especially with Renault's safety requirements which will dumb down the driving experience!!!
Eddiemann's comment is interesting about Caterham not even being mentioned (which backs up my view) - did anyone notice that Fernandes used the term 'playground' in his press statement - is this a game for him??????
I fear this is the beginning of the end for Caterham and I can't see Fernandes being interested in the Seven anymore. Word on the street on the Seven forum's is that Ansar Ali (Ex Caterham CEO) and his sidekick Mark Edwards have been working on something - let's hope this is something more exciting than a rebadged Renault!!! - Are you out there reading this Ansar???
Eddiemann's comment is interesting about Caterham not even being mentioned (which backs up my view) - did anyone notice that Fernandes used the term 'playground' in his press statement - is this a game for him??????
I fear this is the beginning of the end for Caterham and I can't see Fernandes being interested in the Seven anymore. Word on the street on the Seven forum's is that Ansar Ali (Ex Caterham CEO) and his sidekick Mark Edwards have been working on something - let's hope this is something more exciting than a rebadged Renault!!! - Are you out there reading this Ansar???
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