RE: Blood Bros: TT TDI vs Scirocco TDI
Discussion
You should have gone down a different path. if you are worried about the cost but want an Audi coupe, try this, which will not depreciate (could appreciate), costs half as much as a new TT (leaving you plenty for PETROL and maintenance), and will certainly turn more heads than a Golf in a fancy frock:
http://www.classiccar.co.uk/audi/100/audi-100-coup...
If you insist on an actual VW-badged VW, then you could try this (even cheaper):
http://www.classiccar.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/vw-gol...
Or what about a Porsche-badged VW:
http://www.classiccar.co.uk/porsche/924/1980-porsc...
In fact, you could have all three for the price of a new TT.
http://www.classiccar.co.uk/audi/100/audi-100-coup...
If you insist on an actual VW-badged VW, then you could try this (even cheaper):
http://www.classiccar.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/vw-gol...
Or what about a Porsche-badged VW:
http://www.classiccar.co.uk/porsche/924/1980-porsc...
In fact, you could have all three for the price of a new TT.
miln0039 said:
Having driven the TT TDi I can confirm it's not a bad steer at all really and it's a bloody nice place to sit too! Feel top notch. Those with company car allowances to think about could do a lot worse IMO. I'd still take the 2.0T petrol version over it though!!
Fair enough the car might not be to every readers tastes - but I don't think the s
t that a lot of people throw is necessarily very fair, and certainly not based on experience.
So - well done PH for writing something a bit different to the usual 0-60 / powers sliding reviews that Chris Harris manages. (Okay maybe that's unfair but he's still in the dog-house for his Z4 Coupe article IMO!)
Fair enough the car might not be to every readers tastes - but I don't think the s
t that a lot of people throw is necessarily very fair, and certainly not based on experience.So - well done PH for writing something a bit different to the usual 0-60 / powers sliding reviews that Chris Harris manages. (Okay maybe that's unfair but he's still in the dog-house for his Z4 Coupe article IMO!)
The idea in principle was good.....the execution and content of the article was not; it was lazy and tells us little of how either car drives or even if the ICE interfaces were user friendly (i use this as an example because lots of extras prices were listed).
I had a TTTDI as a loan car a few weeks ago.
My conclusions...
Boring engine which totally ruins the fun of the car.
Very economical - Averaged nearly 50mpg while I had it.
Horrible turbo lag after changing gear - DSG might fix that though.
Ride is rubbish without the magnetic dampers.
As a nice looking company car / economical cruiser it's a great. But as a sports car? No.
My conclusions...
Boring engine which totally ruins the fun of the car.
Very economical - Averaged nearly 50mpg while I had it.
Horrible turbo lag after changing gear - DSG might fix that though.
Ride is rubbish without the magnetic dampers.
As a nice looking company car / economical cruiser it's a great. But as a sports car? No.
TTGuy said:
Well done PH - great article! I'll never understand all of the TT hatred here - it is a fantastic car, that's why so many of them have sold!
Careful. Some clever dick will argue that the reason so many have sold is because every loser in the land who wants to keep up with the Jones next door has one on finance.I agree with you, I just choose not to bother now as too many people only harp on about the quattro having grip but this is seen as a negative because we all really want to have RWD and snake everywhere
I never quite understood the relentless anti-TDI sentiment around here.
Anyway - I took a Scirocco TDI BlueMotion on a pretty substantial (1,000 miles in 48 hours) road-trip earlier this year, taking two friends to do the Three Peaks Challenge. Not only was the car spacious enough to accommodate all their gear, economical enough to mean it didn't bankrupt us in fuel, and practical enough to comfortably get us to all the start locations it was also a real hoot to drive - it's quite a happy memory I have of us overtaking slow moving traffic heading down the A82 from Fort William in the direction of Glasgow.. the Scirocco felt right at home on those stunning roads
I've spent time in the Scirocco 2.0 TSI (a week to Germany and back when they first launched back in September 2008), and enjoyed long weekend in a Scirocco R and I really didn't feel that this seemed any more compromised than the other two other than in out-and-out speed. If you want the looks of the Scirocco but you want better range and fuel economy it's a great alternative.
My 2p.
Anyway - I took a Scirocco TDI BlueMotion on a pretty substantial (1,000 miles in 48 hours) road-trip earlier this year, taking two friends to do the Three Peaks Challenge. Not only was the car spacious enough to accommodate all their gear, economical enough to mean it didn't bankrupt us in fuel, and practical enough to comfortably get us to all the start locations it was also a real hoot to drive - it's quite a happy memory I have of us overtaking slow moving traffic heading down the A82 from Fort William in the direction of Glasgow.. the Scirocco felt right at home on those stunning roads
I've spent time in the Scirocco 2.0 TSI (a week to Germany and back when they first launched back in September 2008), and enjoyed long weekend in a Scirocco R and I really didn't feel that this seemed any more compromised than the other two other than in out-and-out speed. If you want the looks of the Scirocco but you want better range and fuel economy it's a great alternative.
My 2p.
People dislike the TDI engine because:
1) It sounds like a canal boat at low speed, shakes the whole car a little during a cold start, and makes an unpleasant rumble at higher speed.
2) Refinement is still far away from the best petrol engines. They are much improved over diesels of old, but not a patch on the buttery smoothness of a good 6 cylinder petrol.
3) the new common-rail ones have 0 torque at the very base of the rev range, VAG diesels are now more linear than ever but torque at idle doesn't exist anymore. Makes driving in 1st/2nd in town a bit annoying.
4) DPF concerns in general.
5) A little snobbery.
No one can refute that they are very economical, and if you don't pay direct attention to your engine or don't care about cars in general you probably won't notice either way, but don't tell yourself all is perfect with diesel unless you have driven a really good petrol engine(BMW straight six, or Porsche flat six for example) for a good chunk of time.
1) It sounds like a canal boat at low speed, shakes the whole car a little during a cold start, and makes an unpleasant rumble at higher speed.
2) Refinement is still far away from the best petrol engines. They are much improved over diesels of old, but not a patch on the buttery smoothness of a good 6 cylinder petrol.
3) the new common-rail ones have 0 torque at the very base of the rev range, VAG diesels are now more linear than ever but torque at idle doesn't exist anymore. Makes driving in 1st/2nd in town a bit annoying.
4) DPF concerns in general.
5) A little snobbery.
No one can refute that they are very economical, and if you don't pay direct attention to your engine or don't care about cars in general you probably won't notice either way, but don't tell yourself all is perfect with diesel unless you have driven a really good petrol engine(BMW straight six, or Porsche flat six for example) for a good chunk of time.
I don't think anyone could deny that diesel engines are good when it comes to providing motive force for almost all forms of transport, but to my mine they aren't (and probably never will be) fun in a car. Although for me that's more down to the turbocharger than the fuel. FisiP1 said:
People dislike the TDI engine because:
1) It sounds like a canal boat at low speed, shakes the whole car a little during a cold start, and makes an unpleasant rumble at higher speed.
2) Refinement is still far away from the best petrol engines. They are much improved over diesels of old, but not a patch on the buttery smoothness of a good 6 cylinder petrol.
3) the new common-rail ones have 0 torque at the very base of the rev range, VAG diesels are now more linear than ever but torque at idle doesn't exist anymore. Makes driving in 1st/2nd in town a bit annoying.
4) DPF concerns in general.
5) A little snobbery.
No one can refute that they are very economical, and if you don't pay direct attention to your engine or don't care about cars in general you probably won't notice either way, but don't tell yourself all is perfect with diesel unless you have driven a really good petrol engine(BMW straight six, or Porsche flat six for example) for a good chunk of time.
One of my cars is a Corrado VR6 and whilst that's not the pinacle of engine refinement, it's a pretty smooth and enjoyable (not to mention soulful) so I feel vaguely qualified to comment on the diesel.1) It sounds like a canal boat at low speed, shakes the whole car a little during a cold start, and makes an unpleasant rumble at higher speed.
2) Refinement is still far away from the best petrol engines. They are much improved over diesels of old, but not a patch on the buttery smoothness of a good 6 cylinder petrol.
3) the new common-rail ones have 0 torque at the very base of the rev range, VAG diesels are now more linear than ever but torque at idle doesn't exist anymore. Makes driving in 1st/2nd in town a bit annoying.
4) DPF concerns in general.
5) A little snobbery.
No one can refute that they are very economical, and if you don't pay direct attention to your engine or don't care about cars in general you probably won't notice either way, but don't tell yourself all is perfect with diesel unless you have driven a really good petrol engine(BMW straight six, or Porsche flat six for example) for a good chunk of time.
The points you make are all fair but regarding the Scirocco TDI specifically:
1) Yep clattery at cold and low speeds but really I honestly didn't find the noise intruding into the cabin once I got up to motorway speeds.
2) True - but then they don't consume fuel like a 6 cylinder either. There has to be a tradeoff.
3) Lack of torque is a pain as is having to be in a specific gear to actually make the engine work properly otherwise you get the violent, juddering, reluctant engine experience - which sucks. This is happening to a certain extent now with small capacity petrol turbo engines - just not quite as bad.
4) Agreed. DPF sucks.
5) Also agreed
Thing is, who says diesels have to look st?
A coupe (or rakish hatch if you prefer) is as valid a place to put a diesel engine as anywhere. The Scirocco and TT are both worthy cars, and to someone who does more motorway plodding than alpine-hairpin racing, a diesel engine would be the better choice.
PH readers - open your eyes! The reason VW make these cars is because they make a lot of sense to some buyers. Most of these cars will be sold as company or lease cars, most will be used for boring commuting duties, and most will be bought by people who would rather see a swathe of plastic under the bonnet than scarey wires and pipes. Most people are not you.
t?A coupe (or rakish hatch if you prefer) is as valid a place to put a diesel engine as anywhere. The Scirocco and TT are both worthy cars, and to someone who does more motorway plodding than alpine-hairpin racing, a diesel engine would be the better choice.
PH readers - open your eyes! The reason VW make these cars is because they make a lot of sense to some buyers. Most of these cars will be sold as company or lease cars, most will be used for boring commuting duties, and most will be bought by people who would rather see a swathe of plastic under the bonnet than scarey wires and pipes. Most people are not you.
Article said:
There comes a time in everyone’s life when you have to accept that youth has gone. In short, you’re suffering a midlife crisis. A common solution is, of course, to buy a sports car. In the long run it’s probably cheaper and certainly less messy than having an affair and these days you can even have one with a sensible diesel engine - thereby reassuring your nearest and dearest that you haven’t gone completely potty. And two of the finest exponents of this breed are produced by Volkswagen Group - the Audi TT 2.0 TDI Quattro and VW’s Scirocco 2.0 TDI 170.
Mid life crisis? FWD diesel hatchback?
As a big scirocco fan, I am so depressed that nearly 50% of all Scirocco sales are now the TDI model and most of those the boggo 140 TDI, which goes in the passat, Jetta, etc... Unlike most of the trolls on here, I actually love the Scirocco, but I wouldnt want a TDI in one... the R.
I just dont understand why so many are opting for the diesel..Its not like most of these cars do a lot of miles, so why handicap a good looking car (in my eyes) with a 140 BHP TDI engine.
The TSI engine is a cracker, it'll do 40 MPG on a gentle cruise, yet hits 100 MPH in 16 secs..in other words, its got proper performance, not just the usual diesel 50-70 4th gear type performance....yes I know the diesel will get into the 50s, but is that really your only consideration when you buy a sporty coupe??!!
I just dont understand why so many are opting for the diesel..Its not like most of these cars do a lot of miles, so why handicap a good looking car (in my eyes) with a 140 BHP TDI engine.
The TSI engine is a cracker, it'll do 40 MPG on a gentle cruise, yet hits 100 MPH in 16 secs..in other words, its got proper performance, not just the usual diesel 50-70 4th gear type performance....yes I know the diesel will get into the 50s, but is that really your only consideration when you buy a sporty coupe??!!
Bezza1969 said:
As a big scirocco fan, I am so depressed that nearly 50% of all Scirocco sales are now the TDI model and most of those the boggo 140 TDI, which goes in the passat, Jetta, etc... Unlike most of the trolls on here, I actually love the Scirocco, but I wouldnt want a TDI in one... the R.
I just dont understand why so many are opting for the diesel..Its not like most of these cars do a lot of miles, so why handicap a good looking car (in my eyes) with a 140 BHP TDI engine.
The TSI engine is a cracker, it'll do 40 MPG on a gentle cruise, yet hits 100 MPH in 16 secs..in other words, its got proper performance, not just the usual diesel 50-70 4th gear type performance....yes I know the diesel will get into the 50s, but is that really your only consideration when you buy a sporty coupe??!!
Most people aren't buying them for ragging around in! I just dont understand why so many are opting for the diesel..Its not like most of these cars do a lot of miles, so why handicap a good looking car (in my eyes) with a 140 BHP TDI engine.
The TSI engine is a cracker, it'll do 40 MPG on a gentle cruise, yet hits 100 MPH in 16 secs..in other words, its got proper performance, not just the usual diesel 50-70 4th gear type performance....yes I know the diesel will get into the 50s, but is that really your only consideration when you buy a sporty coupe??!!
Most people buy they because it's a Golf that looks less repellant, and they want it to be as practical as possible.
Bezza1969 said:
As a big scirocco fan, I am so depressed that nearly 50% of all Scirocco sales are now the TDI model and most of those the boggo 140 TDI, which goes in the passat, Jetta, etc... Unlike most of the trolls on here, I actually love the Scirocco, but I wouldnt want a TDI in one... the R.
I just dont understand why so many are opting for the diesel..Its not like most of these cars do a lot of miles, so why handicap a good looking car (in my eyes) with a 140 BHP TDI engine.
The TSI engine is a cracker, it'll do 40 MPG on a gentle cruise, yet hits 100 MPH in 16 secs..in other words, its got proper performance, not just the usual diesel 50-70 4th gear type performance....yes I know the diesel will get into the 50s, but is that really your only consideration when you buy a sporty coupe??!!
Why is it so hard for you to understand?I just dont understand why so many are opting for the diesel..Its not like most of these cars do a lot of miles, so why handicap a good looking car (in my eyes) with a 140 BHP TDI engine.
The TSI engine is a cracker, it'll do 40 MPG on a gentle cruise, yet hits 100 MPH in 16 secs..in other words, its got proper performance, not just the usual diesel 50-70 4th gear type performance....yes I know the diesel will get into the 50s, but is that really your only consideration when you buy a sporty coupe??!!
Not everyone cares whether it'll do 0-100 in 16 seconds. Most who buy the diesel will do so BECAUSE they do lots of miles, and/or possibly because it will have better residuals (rightly or wrongly). The performance of the diesels probably feels as strong once on the move as the petrols even if they don't have the bigger lungs of the petrol model. And its not like their 4-banger petrols sound any good anyway.
If I was buying one it wouldn't be as a sports car, but as a good looking smallish coupe with a DSG gearbox that was effortless to drive in any scenario, in any conditions, that didn't cost the earth, as an alternative to a huge bargey BMW or something similar. They do fit the bill TBH. I wouldn't swap one for my 350Z but I can certainly see the appeal to certain folks.
Would rather get a GT86 or DC5 as a proper sports cars unlike these cars. But I have to say though, why would anyone pay 5k over the Scirocco for the TT? Essentially the same car as the Scirocco, but only uglier, inside and out. It seems like a "good badge" is still high on the average buyers shopping list.
StottyZr said:
Also, how the hell does the same engine only manage 47.9mpg in the 170 Golf 
I've just had a VW CC GT on extended test drive, and with the same 170bhp engine & 6-speed DSG 'box it averaged 38.7mpg. OK, it's quite a big car, but I thought these diesels were supposed to be economical. The only good thing about the engine is that it was a lot quieter than the 2-litre BMW engine, especially on start-up.This is without doubt the worst article I heave ever read on pistonheads. Has the author ever driven or sat in a actual sports car? Suggesting that a sirocco/TT hatchback diesel should be considered as a cure for a midlife crisis makes me cry inside. I have read more convincing car articles in the free Metro paper.
Such a shame especially as the other recent features and Chris Harris articles have been really good.
Such a shame especially as the other recent features and Chris Harris articles have been really good.
TheFungle said:
Stuart said:
They might be boring, but the point about Blood Brothers is that we look at two different cars available with the same engine. So we've looked at comparisons of stuff with the Ford 5 pot turbo, and we'll doubtless look at stuff with the JLR V8. I won't attempt to disagree with anyone who thinks they're boring (frankly they don't exactly set my hair on fire either) but the accusation that this is sponsored is inaccurate, and clearly requires some clarification.
As ever with PistonHeads, reading is not compulsory. There are other things published on PH today should this not be to your taste...
What prompted my initial comment was not so much that it was boring but the fact it read like simply a rehash of a sales brochure or press release. Other than the fact that both cars obviously had to be driven to the HAS to be photographed there is next to no mention of what they actually drive like.As ever with PistonHeads, reading is not compulsory. There are other things published on PH today should this not be to your taste...
If you don't like, fine - but don't look a gift horse so totally in the mouth!
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