Give your opinion - Dartford Crossing Toll "radical changes"
Discussion
On-Line Consultation Questionnaire --- Let's respond with PH wisdom!
http://www.highways.gov.uk/consultations/dartford-...
I'm in two minds.
http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/press-releases/con...
The horrific congestion and delays caused by having to pay (for a crossing public funds paid off years ago) at the toll booths would be abolished, but replaced with "free-flow remote payments".
However, the fines appear rather steep, together with a short period to "remotely" pay. And it does seem a Trojan Horse to trial and fund what is essentially a "pay as you drive" experiment.
"By removing the barriers at the crossing congestion will be reduced and traffic flow will improve for all motorists – but that means the way payment is collected will change.
Road users will be encouraged to pay the charge in advance of their use of the crossing. Proposals detailed in the Charging Scheme Order consultation set out the charges that will apply, and will allow road users to pay at the standard rate up to midnight on the day of using the crossing or at the standard charge plus 20% on the following day. After this the proposed penalty charge for non-payment would be £70, with a reduced rate of £35 if paid within 14 days. If the penalty is not paid within 28 days it is proposed that it would increase to £105.
The introduction of free-flow charging at Dartford is being progressed to the following timescale:
•Summer 2012, start procurement process for customer charging and enforcement management services contract (underway).
•Autumn 2012, start public consultation on secondary legislation.
•Winter 2012/13, invite tenders for customer charging and enforcement management services contract.
•Summer 2013, Statutory Instrument laid before parliament.
•Autumn 2013, contract award of customer charging and enforcement management services.
•Summer 2014, technical go-live, controlled testing and integration.
•Autumn 2014, full operation of free-flow charging at Dartford.
Free-flow technology will allow motorists to use the Dartford Crossing without having to stop at barriers to hand over payment. It will allow the remote collection of payment through a variety of methods including telephone, text message, online, and at retail outlets – giving motorists greater flexibility in how and when they pay the charge."
Consultation documents: http://www.highways.gov.uk/consultations/dartford-...
http://www.highways.gov.uk/consultations/dartford-...
I'm in two minds.
http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/press-releases/con...
The horrific congestion and delays caused by having to pay (for a crossing public funds paid off years ago) at the toll booths would be abolished, but replaced with "free-flow remote payments".
However, the fines appear rather steep, together with a short period to "remotely" pay. And it does seem a Trojan Horse to trial and fund what is essentially a "pay as you drive" experiment.
"By removing the barriers at the crossing congestion will be reduced and traffic flow will improve for all motorists – but that means the way payment is collected will change.
Road users will be encouraged to pay the charge in advance of their use of the crossing. Proposals detailed in the Charging Scheme Order consultation set out the charges that will apply, and will allow road users to pay at the standard rate up to midnight on the day of using the crossing or at the standard charge plus 20% on the following day. After this the proposed penalty charge for non-payment would be £70, with a reduced rate of £35 if paid within 14 days. If the penalty is not paid within 28 days it is proposed that it would increase to £105.
The introduction of free-flow charging at Dartford is being progressed to the following timescale:
•Summer 2012, start procurement process for customer charging and enforcement management services contract (underway).
•Autumn 2012, start public consultation on secondary legislation.
•Winter 2012/13, invite tenders for customer charging and enforcement management services contract.
•Summer 2013, Statutory Instrument laid before parliament.
•Autumn 2013, contract award of customer charging and enforcement management services.
•Summer 2014, technical go-live, controlled testing and integration.
•Autumn 2014, full operation of free-flow charging at Dartford.
Free-flow technology will allow motorists to use the Dartford Crossing without having to stop at barriers to hand over payment. It will allow the remote collection of payment through a variety of methods including telephone, text message, online, and at retail outlets – giving motorists greater flexibility in how and when they pay the charge."
Consultation documents: http://www.highways.gov.uk/consultations/dartford-...
Edited by C8H18Head on Tuesday 6th November 11:11
For someone like myself who has to use the crossing twice a day (to and from work) I think the current system is shocking. Sometimes I sit in 2 hours of traffic just to pay for the pleasure?? They also have us around the balls because there is no other viable route to take. Say they start charging £20 one way from tomorrow what could we do? Nothing.
They also have the cheek to put the price up as well last month, I now pay £53 a month just to sit in traffic and line someones pocket.
They also have the cheek to put the price up as well last month, I now pay £53 a month just to sit in traffic and line someones pocket.
BigBen said:
It annoys me that the crossing has been paid for many times over so resent paying for it at all.
However on balance many hours spent queuing to pay mean I am in favour of anything that removes this pinch point from the M25, even if it costs double.
Ben
Agreed. Another way of making it free flowing at zero cost would be to remove the fHowever on balance many hours spent queuing to pay mean I am in favour of anything that removes this pinch point from the M25, even if it costs double.
Ben
king toll altogether. The robbing, lying s.Still as I don't drive a UK reg'd vehicle in the UK I'll just drive over it for free and throw any fines that arrive in the bin.
Like aj520d, I too have use the crossing twice a day so the recent c.30% price increase was not welcome!
But I think too much blame is placed on the crossings as being where the problems in traffic in that area lie.
Take last week (half term). The traffic round there was abysmal caused (I believe) by an increase in traffic going to Bluewater and Lakeside.
Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that automated barriers must help traffic flow - no more waiting for numpties who throw in a £1 thinking they can fool the machine!!
But what I cannot see anywhere in the consultation documents is what the proposed charges will be. Will they be kept at £1.33 (the current charge for Dart Tag holders) or will (as I suspect) the charge be increased yet again? And to what? I'm not sure I'd want the tolls to increase to £2 or more just to save me a few minutes on my journey.
Personally I'd like there to be more incentives for people to buy crossings via their Dart Tag rather than the current system of simply putting money on. For example, if I was told that if I paid £1,000 I could buy 1,000 crossings then this would benefit me as I would know that I have paid for the next 1,000 crossings plus it would better the crossing authorities as they would have money up front to invest, etc.
But I think too much blame is placed on the crossings as being where the problems in traffic in that area lie.
Take last week (half term). The traffic round there was abysmal caused (I believe) by an increase in traffic going to Bluewater and Lakeside.
Having said that, there is no doubt in my mind that automated barriers must help traffic flow - no more waiting for numpties who throw in a £1 thinking they can fool the machine!!
But what I cannot see anywhere in the consultation documents is what the proposed charges will be. Will they be kept at £1.33 (the current charge for Dart Tag holders) or will (as I suspect) the charge be increased yet again? And to what? I'm not sure I'd want the tolls to increase to £2 or more just to save me a few minutes on my journey.
Personally I'd like there to be more incentives for people to buy crossings via their Dart Tag rather than the current system of simply putting money on. For example, if I was told that if I paid £1,000 I could buy 1,000 crossings then this would benefit me as I would know that I have paid for the next 1,000 crossings plus it would better the crossing authorities as they would have money up front to invest, etc.
For a number of reasons, I'm not sure how they plan to make this happen, or at least not seamlessly
At present, there are 4 lanes leading up to the 16 toll barriers, which then funnel back down to 4 lanes again. This means that taking the toll booths away will mean either changing the M25 layout (And for anyone that has seen how long it has taken so far to widen small sections, you'll know this won't be taking 5 minutes), or it's going to produce some spectacular accidents.
I also understood that the barriers leading into the tunnels were used to control the flow of traffic in them if there is a hold up on the other side, to prevent high emission build ups (although it does look like they've recently upgraded the extaction system in them). With no toll booths, how do they then control traffic flow in the tunnel.
What will happen to fuel tankers? as at present, the barriers allow them to restrict traffic flow into the left hand tunnel to get batches of tankers through under escort.
As for the cost going up again - well that's an utter pisstake
At present, there are 4 lanes leading up to the 16 toll barriers, which then funnel back down to 4 lanes again. This means that taking the toll booths away will mean either changing the M25 layout (And for anyone that has seen how long it has taken so far to widen small sections, you'll know this won't be taking 5 minutes), or it's going to produce some spectacular accidents.
I also understood that the barriers leading into the tunnels were used to control the flow of traffic in them if there is a hold up on the other side, to prevent high emission build ups (although it does look like they've recently upgraded the extaction system in them). With no toll booths, how do they then control traffic flow in the tunnel.
What will happen to fuel tankers? as at present, the barriers allow them to restrict traffic flow into the left hand tunnel to get batches of tankers through under escort.
As for the cost going up again - well that's an utter pisstake
Humpy D said:
But I think too much blame is placed on the crossings as being where the problems in traffic in that area lie.
The problems are caused by the toll booths. Making every motorist stop on a motorway will cause congestion, its as simple as that.The problem is they are shooting themselves in the foot to a certain degree. We live in Kent used to visit lakeside. Due to the increasing tolls its become less and less. We went a few weeks back and couldn't believe how expensive it was to cross. We are now unlikely to visit lakeside unless we have a very specific reason.
You may argue that we will just shop locally now, however I can assure you that a trip to a major shopping centre normally ends up with a lot extra spending on stuff we (or more to the point my wife) doesn't actually need.
People don't use bridges for fun, its either to go somewhere to work, or go somewhere to spend money. Putting a financial and physical block in place doesn't help either.
98elise, don't get me wrong I appreciate that anything that stops/delay the traffic such as tolls will stop/delay the traffic.
My point was that many people just think that you take away the tolls and the M25 becomes free flowing. No - it just moves the problem somewhere else.
As I mentioned, last week the queue of traffic at the Lakeside turn off during the evening rush hour was terrible. Probably half a mile onto the main carriageway.
My point was that many people just think that you take away the tolls and the M25 becomes free flowing. No - it just moves the problem somewhere else.
As I mentioned, last week the queue of traffic at the Lakeside turn off during the evening rush hour was terrible. Probably half a mile onto the main carriageway.
martin84 said:
They told us the toll would be scrapped when the bridge was paid for, so let's not fool for paying extra in return for them slowing us down a little less.
But it is not slowing us down a little less. It nearly always adds at least 30 mins to your journey. That is not a trifling amount of time.Ben
Humpy D said:
98elise, don't get me wrong I appreciate that anything that stops/delay the traffic such as tolls will stop/delay the traffic.
My point was that many people just think that you take away the tolls and the M25 becomes free flowing. No - it just moves the problem somewhere else.
As I mentioned, last week the queue of traffic at the Lakeside turn off during the evening rush hour was terrible. Probably half a mile onto the main carriageway.
Yet when they have opened the tolls, traffic has moved much more freely. By your logic a toll every 1 mile would help things.My point was that many people just think that you take away the tolls and the M25 becomes free flowing. No - it just moves the problem somewhere else.
As I mentioned, last week the queue of traffic at the Lakeside turn off during the evening rush hour was terrible. Probably half a mile onto the main carriageway.
Its serves no purpose but to collect taxes, and make people crawl along at 2 mph which must be great for the environment.
Cyder said:
I've replied to the questionnaire and put:
"The toll should be abolished now the crossing has been paid for as was the original promise."
In every comment box.
i have also done this"The toll should be abolished now the crossing has been paid for as was the original promise."
In every comment box.
however all of these consultations are a waste of time, they go ahead with their plan regardless of public opinion, reasoned debate, logic
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