RE: Meeting 'Mr GT86'
Discussion
I wonder if every time he does something he puts a foot forward , opens his arms and there's a little fanfare.
'Tada'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7YiwTpQdT8
'Tada'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7YiwTpQdT8
People harp on about inflation, and its probably true, but is it just me who feels that even though I'm constantly told in "real terms" the current prices are cheaper than they used to be, that cars now just seem very expensive.
Less than £10K 20 years ago for a car somehow seems a lot more palatable than the almost £30K some decent cars these days.
I earn a good wage, but I don't know how people afford these cars. I always have to smile when people at work who've just bought a mid range small hatch that cost them anything up to £20K wonder how I can afford to run a 350Z that cost me £7K to buy; I wonder how they can afford to buy their car! That £13K buys a lot of petrol, road tax and insurance.
Less than £10K 20 years ago for a car somehow seems a lot more palatable than the almost £30K some decent cars these days.
I earn a good wage, but I don't know how people afford these cars. I always have to smile when people at work who've just bought a mid range small hatch that cost them anything up to £20K wonder how I can afford to run a 350Z that cost me £7K to buy; I wonder how they can afford to buy their car! That £13K buys a lot of petrol, road tax and insurance.
When deciding on a new car recently, I've driven both the Toyota (up the hill-climb route at Goodwood as well as on normal roads) and the Subaru (on normal roads) versions of this car. Subjectively, the Subaru looked somehow 'nicer', could have been the colour affecting my judgement though! To drive, they're more or less identical although the Subaru was slightly less damped over poor surfaces. The quality of interior materials on the Subaru left something to be desired, and the audio equipment looked like an afterthought 1980's piece of equipment. Still, that's not why someone would buy this car.
On a small track without too many long straights it would be awesome fun. As a drivers machine there's very little that has the same balance, poise and natural feel on the road. The piped in noise of the car also sounded pretty good, although I suspect on a long journey the constant gear changes required to get any performance from the car could get very tiring. As an example, on a particular hill near to me, the car did not have the power to go up and maintain speed without changing down - something even my old Rovers managed without too much effort! Provided you are in the right gear there's plenty of power, although acceleration does tail off - could struggle with long straights on track, again not really what this car is about I suppose.
If you're not the driver... Because of penny pinching I would assume, the passenger seat has no height adjustment. That means that even if you had leg room in the back (you don't), you don't have foot room under the front seat. This makes the rear passenger side seat useless for anyone that has feet. If you have to get someone behind the driver, expect to have the front seat very close to the steering wheel. Not a very comfy driving position (and I'm not that tall at 5'10!)
In any case, anyone over 5'6 will bang their head on the rear window at some point, and that hurts (I know, I did it!)
Now, if you wanted to travel anywhere in this car, be prepared to not take too much stuff. Unless you have VERY small suitcases, the boot is useless. Again, not really what this car is about but what's the point of having a car you can't take anywhere, and can't enjoy with anyone else?
IMHO, they'd have been far better off with this car to just ditch the hugely compromised rear seats, make a decent sized boot and making it a nicely balanced 2 seater GT to compete with the likes of the 370Z etc. In summary, if I was buying a small sporty car for ME and no-one else, I would have considered this car, then probably bought an MX-5/370Z or something similar. As it is, I have a family to transport around to various clubs/events/parties etc which makes this car a complete non-starter sadly.
On a small track without too many long straights it would be awesome fun. As a drivers machine there's very little that has the same balance, poise and natural feel on the road. The piped in noise of the car also sounded pretty good, although I suspect on a long journey the constant gear changes required to get any performance from the car could get very tiring. As an example, on a particular hill near to me, the car did not have the power to go up and maintain speed without changing down - something even my old Rovers managed without too much effort! Provided you are in the right gear there's plenty of power, although acceleration does tail off - could struggle with long straights on track, again not really what this car is about I suppose.
If you're not the driver... Because of penny pinching I would assume, the passenger seat has no height adjustment. That means that even if you had leg room in the back (you don't), you don't have foot room under the front seat. This makes the rear passenger side seat useless for anyone that has feet. If you have to get someone behind the driver, expect to have the front seat very close to the steering wheel. Not a very comfy driving position (and I'm not that tall at 5'10!)
In any case, anyone over 5'6 will bang their head on the rear window at some point, and that hurts (I know, I did it!)
Now, if you wanted to travel anywhere in this car, be prepared to not take too much stuff. Unless you have VERY small suitcases, the boot is useless. Again, not really what this car is about but what's the point of having a car you can't take anywhere, and can't enjoy with anyone else?
IMHO, they'd have been far better off with this car to just ditch the hugely compromised rear seats, make a decent sized boot and making it a nicely balanced 2 seater GT to compete with the likes of the 370Z etc. In summary, if I was buying a small sporty car for ME and no-one else, I would have considered this car, then probably bought an MX-5/370Z or something similar. As it is, I have a family to transport around to various clubs/events/parties etc which makes this car a complete non-starter sadly.
MajorTom said:
HighwayStar said:
MajorTom said:
It's far too expensive for what is actually a pretty basic car....should be more like £15k.
What a ridiculous thing to say. Not for what they've done. Bespoke rwd chassis doesn't give the economy is scale. By your reckoning an MX5 should be about 12k new. Edited by MajorTom on Wednesday 7th November 09:22
Development costs, manufacturing costs, marketing and profit margin go in to the price we everything we buy new!
Of course some things are over priced, I'm not that naive but... So it's 11k over priced and you still think Toyota would make a tidy profit on 15k?
I can't afford a Gallardo but it doesn't mean it's over priced and should be 30k so I can...
beat me to it!Nick Young said:
If you're not the driver... Because of penny pinching I would assume, the passenger seat has no height adjustment. That means that even if you had leg room in the back (you don't), you don't have foot room under the front seat. This makes the rear passenger side seat useless for anyone that has feet. If you have to get someone behind the driver, expect to have the front seat very close to the steering wheel. Not a very comfy driving position (and I'm not that tall at 5'10!)
In any case, anyone over 5'6 will bang their head on the rear window at some point, and that hurts (I know, I did it!)
Now, if you wanted to travel anywhere in this car, be prepared to not take too much stuff. Unless you have VERY small suitcases, the boot is useless. Again, not really what this car is about but what's the point of having a car you can't take anywhere, and can't enjoy with anyone else?
I had a Ford Puma a couple of years ago. The boot was ok, but Fiesta-sized and more difficult to get stuff into. The back seats were tiddly and no adult could sit up straight in them.In any case, anyone over 5'6 will bang their head on the rear window at some point, and that hurts (I know, I did it!)
Now, if you wanted to travel anywhere in this car, be prepared to not take too much stuff. Unless you have VERY small suitcases, the boot is useless. Again, not really what this car is about but what's the point of having a car you can't take anywhere, and can't enjoy with anyone else?
BUT, when I needed to give two people a lift, it was infinitely better than my MX5. Just because Toyota have given the GT86 back seats, doesn't mean they're trying to compete with an S-Class. It just gives you options that you wouldn't have with a two-seater. Just the two of you going away? What's the harm of putting a bag on the back seats? Desperately need to give a couple of friends a lift somewhere? They'd probably rather screw themselves into a ball than pay for a taxi.
They can't build a car that is exactly what each customer wants, but as compromises go I think it's a pretty good one.
The last time i saw so much guff about a new car was when Peugeot announced the RCZ (i bought one!)
just have a test drive in the GT86, it drives, stops and steers with a precision that can only be engineered in via intrinsic knowledge. For example and something that's easy to note from the story. Look at the fourth picture down, Note the rear view mirror, note how its hollowed out to save weight and where the wight is saved from (up high)
I know its a small detail but you apply that philosophy to all aspects of the car and you realise why it feels so 'Right'
they could've just raided the parts bin for such a common component but they didn't! Due to this they raided the parts bin on the door lock mechanisms, digital dash clock and some of the plastics. However if that bothers you go up the road to the nearest Audi dealer where you can pay more for the facade of engineering, but peer back under the skin and you'll see VAG all over the important bits and that's why your new car with soft touch glass windows and textured electric window switches will drive like a golf thru the wrong wheels...
for the people that moan about 'only' 200bhp, i weep for you, i really do.
just have a test drive in the GT86, it drives, stops and steers with a precision that can only be engineered in via intrinsic knowledge. For example and something that's easy to note from the story. Look at the fourth picture down, Note the rear view mirror, note how its hollowed out to save weight and where the wight is saved from (up high)
I know its a small detail but you apply that philosophy to all aspects of the car and you realise why it feels so 'Right'
they could've just raided the parts bin for such a common component but they didn't! Due to this they raided the parts bin on the door lock mechanisms, digital dash clock and some of the plastics. However if that bothers you go up the road to the nearest Audi dealer where you can pay more for the facade of engineering, but peer back under the skin and you'll see VAG all over the important bits and that's why your new car with soft touch glass windows and textured electric window switches will drive like a golf thru the wrong wheels...
for the people that moan about 'only' 200bhp, i weep for you, i really do.
What is the argument about here, Toyota have given us a great enthusiast car you have to work hard to get the best out of. Before getting my gt86 the only cars I really wanted to own were things like a 968 or an e30 m3 but you can't use those everyday. Those cars were probably killed off by people complaining about not enough power or maybe not, I don't know. If you want something cheap with lots of torque, a big boot thats easy to drive everyday then why not just buy a diesel Hyundai or a Kia or something that suits your need.
DanDC5 said:
But for your needs a 370z or MX5 are also a non starter. They're all a similar car at the end of the day. If you want a big coupe to take 4 people then there's plenty available, but they're all over 30k base price.
Agreed, that's why I said "If it was for me and no-one else"... 
Richard-G said:
The last time i saw so much guff about a new car was when Peugeot announced the RCZ (i bought one!)
just have a test drive in the GT86, it drives, stops and steers with a precision that can only be engineered in via intrinsic knowledge. For example and something that's easy to note from the story. Look at the fourth picture down, Note the rear view mirror, note how its hollowed out to save weight and where the wight is saved from (up high)
I know its a small detail but you apply that philosophy to all aspects of the car and you realise why it feels so 'Right'
they could've just raided the parts bin for such a common component but they didn't! Due to this they raided the parts bin on the door lock mechanisms, digital dash clock and some of the plastics. However if that bothers you go up the road to the nearest Audi dealer where you can pay more for the facade of engineering, but peer back under the skin and you'll see VAG all over the important bits and that's why your new car with soft touch glass windows and textured electric window switches will drive like a golf thru the wrong wheels...
for the people that moan about 'only' 200bhp, i weep for you, i really do.
I suspect it's not about 'only 200bhp', I suspect its about only 150lb/ft of torque that isn't available till 6400rpm. just have a test drive in the GT86, it drives, stops and steers with a precision that can only be engineered in via intrinsic knowledge. For example and something that's easy to note from the story. Look at the fourth picture down, Note the rear view mirror, note how its hollowed out to save weight and where the wight is saved from (up high)
I know its a small detail but you apply that philosophy to all aspects of the car and you realise why it feels so 'Right'
they could've just raided the parts bin for such a common component but they didn't! Due to this they raided the parts bin on the door lock mechanisms, digital dash clock and some of the plastics. However if that bothers you go up the road to the nearest Audi dealer where you can pay more for the facade of engineering, but peer back under the skin and you'll see VAG all over the important bits and that's why your new car with soft touch glass windows and textured electric window switches will drive like a golf thru the wrong wheels...
for the people that moan about 'only' 200bhp, i weep for you, i really do.
Nick Young said:
DanDC5 said:
But for your needs a 370z or MX5 are also a non starter. They're all a similar car at the end of the day. If you want a big coupe to take 4 people then there's plenty available, but they're all over 30k base price.
Agreed, that's why I said "If it was for me and no-one else"... Nick Young said:
Richard-G said:
The last time i saw so much guff about a new car was when Peugeot announced the RCZ (i bought one!)
just have a test drive in the GT86, it drives, stops and steers with a precision that can only be engineered in via intrinsic knowledge. For example and something that's easy to note from the story. Look at the fourth picture down, Note the rear view mirror, note how its hollowed out to save weight and where the wight is saved from (up high)
I know its a small detail but you apply that philosophy to all aspects of the car and you realise why it feels so 'Right'
they could've just raided the parts bin for such a common component but they didn't! Due to this they raided the parts bin on the door lock mechanisms, digital dash clock and some of the plastics. However if that bothers you go up the road to the nearest Audi dealer where you can pay more for the facade of engineering, but peer back under the skin and you'll see VAG all over the important bits and that's why your new car with soft touch glass windows and textured electric window switches will drive like a golf thru the wrong wheels...
for the people that moan about 'only' 200bhp, i weep for you, i really do.
I suspect it's not about 'only 200bhp', I suspect its about only 150lb/ft of torque that isn't available till 6400rpm. just have a test drive in the GT86, it drives, stops and steers with a precision that can only be engineered in via intrinsic knowledge. For example and something that's easy to note from the story. Look at the fourth picture down, Note the rear view mirror, note how its hollowed out to save weight and where the wight is saved from (up high)
I know its a small detail but you apply that philosophy to all aspects of the car and you realise why it feels so 'Right'
they could've just raided the parts bin for such a common component but they didn't! Due to this they raided the parts bin on the door lock mechanisms, digital dash clock and some of the plastics. However if that bothers you go up the road to the nearest Audi dealer where you can pay more for the facade of engineering, but peer back under the skin and you'll see VAG all over the important bits and that's why your new car with soft touch glass windows and textured electric window switches will drive like a golf thru the wrong wheels...
for the people that moan about 'only' 200bhp, i weep for you, i really do.
DanDC5 said:
Still dying to have a go in one of these. Completely get the point of the car, I don't care that is has 'only' 200bhp, I've 'only' got 220bhp at the moment and it's plenty for the type of driving I enjoy most. And if you do want more power from one it seems pretty easy to achieve. Lichfield Motors gained just over 10bhp with just a cat-back exhaust....
To me the GT86 is a more practical Lotus Elise, plenty of driving thrills without having to do 100 million mph.
Ditto to everything.To me the GT86 is a more practical Lotus Elise, plenty of driving thrills without having to do 100 million mph.
MajorTom,what a plonker.You have demonstrated a complete ignorance of the business of making cars.How on earth are Toyota supposed to build a clean sheet sports coupe, using little from the coprporate parts bin, and charge £ 15k for it. A boggo basic BMW 118i is over £ 18k,boggo basic Citroen C4 1.6 is £18k, Fiat Punto 1.4 £ 15k, Fiesta 1.4 £ 15k, basic Hyundai i30 1.4 £ 15k, Kia Ceed 1.6 £ 15k.That's what £ 15k gets you.The GT86, is a bespoke sports coupe, centre of gravity lower than a Porsche Cayman,engine designed to rev to 7500,oval exhausts to get the groud clearance,prefect weight distribution matched to the handling,a perfect driving position,the best chassis balance on a road car anywhere.It also has a great and plentiful dealer network,a 5 year warranty, and low rate finance with good residuals,it will be reliable and last for ever.What more do you want? I think it's cheap at £ 25k.Tom, go back to your 10 year old 1.2 Clio until you know what you are talking about.Muppet.
MajorTom said:
GFWilliams said:
MajorTom said:
No, I think that an MX5 should be priced just like a basic spec GT86....both of them should start at £15k.
The new Vauxhall Adam is 14k for half the power, why would the GT86 be only 1k more? The prices are what they are for a reason, and while I wish the GT86 was cheaper so I could afford one, it's actually pretty realistic pricing compared to other competitors in the market.
king point? Had a drive of my Brother's new one the other day and I was impressed. Lovely gearbox, good handling, good ride. It's also a relatively small car, which I like immensely.
Car prices using inflation as a guide can be mighty confusing - Merc E class prices don't seem to have budged for almost 20 years. I suspect Toyota will easily sell every one they can bring into the country at this price - so as far as the market is concerned it's the right price, if not slightly low.
Car prices using inflation as a guide can be mighty confusing - Merc E class prices don't seem to have budged for almost 20 years. I suspect Toyota will easily sell every one they can bring into the country at this price - so as far as the market is concerned it's the right price, if not slightly low.
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