RE: PH Blog: boom and bust?
Discussion
will_ said:
IIRC there is no CGT on cars in the UK at all as they "wasting assets".
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/possessions/basics.htm
Indeed. Whereas in the US there is unless you're able to roll it straight into another asset.http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/possessions/basics.htm
Of course it's a bubble. Look how steep the curve is.
The 993 GT2 was a club sport, not a 'regular' 993 GT2... Kinda the 2.7RS lightweight to the touring.
Ultra rare 911 are already more expensive than Veyron's. e.g 911R, '72 911 2.5 SR, 3.0RSR, and a few others...
A friend recently sold his DB6 Vantage for >£250k at 'Astons' auction... A new record for the car at auction.
The fact that cars are increasingly being bought purely for investment, stashed away in warehouses, makes the 'investment' more fragile. As soon as the prices start to dip past x level, cars will be offered on mass. The higher prices go in the shorter term, the further and faster they will fall when the market turns. Trust me.
The 993 GT2 was a club sport, not a 'regular' 993 GT2... Kinda the 2.7RS lightweight to the touring.
Ultra rare 911 are already more expensive than Veyron's. e.g 911R, '72 911 2.5 SR, 3.0RSR, and a few others...
A friend recently sold his DB6 Vantage for >£250k at 'Astons' auction... A new record for the car at auction.
The fact that cars are increasingly being bought purely for investment, stashed away in warehouses, makes the 'investment' more fragile. As soon as the prices start to dip past x level, cars will be offered on mass. The higher prices go in the shorter term, the further and faster they will fall when the market turns. Trust me.
Very interesting. Nail...head.
The one that surprised me was the Pullman "only" getting a £75k bid but I think they are hideously expensive to maintain. I agree about the 280SE 2.5 Cab....I remember seeing one of them go through an auction for about £30k six or seven years ago and appear on a dealers website for £70k a couple of weeks later.
The one that surprised me was the Pullman "only" getting a £75k bid but I think they are hideously expensive to maintain. I agree about the 280SE 2.5 Cab....I remember seeing one of them go through an auction for about £30k six or seven years ago and appear on a dealers website for £70k a couple of weeks later.
i agree in so much that some mediocre car values are being dragged up by significant cars from the same marque that are correctly prized and priced accordingly. DB6 being a good example, i agree. i think some cars will continue to firm, but only if they are in perfect condition and have solid provenence. i don't think 200k for a 2.7 RS touring is madness, nor the price that GT2 sold for. they are significant cars and probably the finest sports cars of their generation. are gullwings worth half a mill, why not ? and the last Macca F1 roadcar sold for over £3mill i read...the money is there as is the demand. a change in the CGT regs might have a negative impact nationally, but it's an international market now, especially at the top end. can't see the bubble bursting for accepted classics any time soon, certainly not at the top end.
My Dad brought the Ferrari Daytona I now own for £7,500 in 1974. In 1987 it was insured for £400K (probably over £1m in today's terms), and today as a pop up car and therefore a little less desirable in the marker than the plexi car RM auctioned probably worth around £250K. To me none of that matters, I love driving it and always will and see no reason to ever sell.
Personally I think if people are buying cars purely as investments then there is a good chance you will get your fingers burnt. Buy to enjoy and if you make a handsome profit (after purchase and maintenance and insurance costs) when you come to sell that's a bonus.
Personally I think if people are buying cars purely as investments then there is a good chance you will get your fingers burnt. Buy to enjoy and if you make a handsome profit (after purchase and maintenance and insurance costs) when you come to sell that's a bonus.
sleep envy said:
I was offered a 993 GT2 for £120k in 2007.
One hundred and twenty grand.
On hundred and twenty f
king grand.
Look at it this way, in 5 years anything could have happened, the engine could have exploded, you pay to repair then it got stolen, who knows!! Plus insuring, maintaining, keeping in the correct condition im guessing even for 5 years would be a fairly ridiculous sum.One hundred and twenty grand.
On hundred and twenty f
king grand.I think the real question will be as to how China responds to the classic car. Will the up and coming Chinese big spenders be all about classic metal or will they collect something else? Is a DB5 really them and, most importantly, will they be able to use it. If Shanghai bans all cars over 10 years old from the city then a DB5 is no use to anyone there and it could well kill the notion.
Supply and demand is the game and currently the demand is there based on the expected future demand. If that doesn't materialise then we're on for some tasty prices. If the demands there then you may find tasty stuff becomes a much rarer sight here
Supply and demand is the game and currently the demand is there based on the expected future demand. If that doesn't materialise then we're on for some tasty prices. If the demands there then you may find tasty stuff becomes a much rarer sight here
CampDavid said:
I think the real question will be as to how China responds to the classic car. Will the up and coming Chinese big spenders be all about classic metal or will they collect something else? Is a DB5 really them and, most importantly, will they be able to use it. If Shanghai bans all cars over 10 years old from the city then a DB5 is no use to anyone there and it could well kill the notion.
Supply and demand is the game and currently the demand is there based on the expected future demand. If that doesn't materialise then we're on for some tasty prices. If the demands there then you may find tasty stuff becomes a much rarer sight here
Collectors rarely drive their cars. Look how much pork already goes to Hong Kong.Supply and demand is the game and currently the demand is there based on the expected future demand. If that doesn't materialise then we're on for some tasty prices. If the demands there then you may find tasty stuff becomes a much rarer sight here
After_Shock said:
sleep envy said:
I was offered a 993 GT2 for £120k in 2007.
One hundred and twenty grand.
On hundred and twenty fking grand.
Look at it this way, in 5 years anything could have happened, the engine could have exploded, you pay to repair then it got stolen, who knows!! Plus insuring, maintaining, keeping in the correct condition im guessing even for 5 years would be a fairly ridiculous sum.One hundred and twenty grand.
On hundred and twenty f
king grand.sleep envy said:
CampDavid said:
I think the real question will be as to how China responds to the classic car. Will the up and coming Chinese big spenders be all about classic metal or will they collect something else? Is a DB5 really them and, most importantly, will they be able to use it. If Shanghai bans all cars over 10 years old from the city then a DB5 is no use to anyone there and it could well kill the notion.
Supply and demand is the game and currently the demand is there based on the expected future demand. If that doesn't materialise then we're on for some tasty prices. If the demands there then you may find tasty stuff becomes a much rarer sight here
Collectors rarely drive their cars. Look how much pork already goes to Hong Kong.Supply and demand is the game and currently the demand is there based on the expected future demand. If that doesn't materialise then we're on for some tasty prices. If the demands there then you may find tasty stuff becomes a much rarer sight here
Jesus, that is mental money for a 911 of any description, especially one with exposed rivets on the wheelarches.
I supopose the key is deciding which of the ones that are currently "cheap" are going to get be regarded as the Holy Grail next, 996 GT2 currently looking very cheap next to a third of a million quid, is the 993 worth eight times more, never driven either but cant imagine Porsche dropped the ball so badly that the later version, supposedly better in every way is worth so much less, must be a hell of a lot more of them about or is it infected with the 996 lurgy, is it really nowhere near as good or should I buy one and hold onto it, using the 993 as evidence to the missus.
I supopose the key is deciding which of the ones that are currently "cheap" are going to get be regarded as the Holy Grail next, 996 GT2 currently looking very cheap next to a third of a million quid, is the 993 worth eight times more, never driven either but cant imagine Porsche dropped the ball so badly that the later version, supposedly better in every way is worth so much less, must be a hell of a lot more of them about or is it infected with the 996 lurgy, is it really nowhere near as good or should I buy one and hold onto it, using the 993 as evidence to the missus.
CampDavid said:
Is it not important that they could, if they wanted to though?
Depends on the individual I guess but with all the rare aircooled RS stuff heading over there I doubt they'd do very many miles in them.The chap I bought my 993 RS from had a collection of over 140 cars.
When he wanted to drive a particular car he'd phone up the guy who ran his garage.
The car was readied and delivered to him to pretty much anywhere in Europe.
J4CKO said:
Jesus, that is mental money for a 911 of any description, especially one with exposed rivets on the wheelarches.
I supopose the key is deciding which of the ones that are currently "cheap" are going to get be regarded as the Holy Grail next, 996 GT2 currently looking very cheap next to a third of a million quid, is the 993 worth eight times more, never driven either but cant imagine Porsche dropped the ball so badly that the later version, supposedly better in every way is worth so much less, must be a hell of a lot more of them about or is it infected with the 996 lurgy, is it really nowhere near as good or should I buy one and hold onto it, using the 993 as evidence to the missus.
I think all of the subsequent variations on the 911 "GT" theme have lacked the visual drama and charisma of the 993 GT2 (aside from the GT1 Le Mans car), so I doubt they will have the same appeal long-term. I may be wrong, but did they make more of the later types?I supopose the key is deciding which of the ones that are currently "cheap" are going to get be regarded as the Holy Grail next, 996 GT2 currently looking very cheap next to a third of a million quid, is the 993 worth eight times more, never driven either but cant imagine Porsche dropped the ball so badly that the later version, supposedly better in every way is worth so much less, must be a hell of a lot more of them about or is it infected with the 996 lurgy, is it really nowhere near as good or should I buy one and hold onto it, using the 993 as evidence to the missus.
I remember seeing a silver 993 GT2 like this but with an even taller rear wing in Silverstone car-park back in the day. It looked incredible.
NB: I'd still take a 959 over one of these.
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