RE: Chris Harris video: GT2 RS vs Panigale part 2

[smilo996]

If it is a pace at top speed, at least get a bike geared for 200+mph. That is like racing a car limited to 155 against a car capable of 200mph and wondering why the 200mph car will win.

The Panigale is not advertised as being able to do 200mph. However another bit of fun for Chris Harris. Funny how slow the Porsche is though.

[Ninjaboy]

MrKipling43 said:

Cool vid, but isn't this just a film about how quickly a GT2RS will catch a Panigale after it has hit the limiter?

Excellent point, i forgot bikes are limited now. ZX10's delimited hit over 200 don't they?

[Oddball RS]

"We had to use a Panigale S this time, because the Tricolore’s exotic exhaust was louder than a Lightning"


Me thinks you have never stood anywhere near an EE Lightning on 'noisy' then................................

[StuB]

Oddball RS said:

"We had to use a Panigale S this time, because the Tricolore’s exotic exhaust was louder than a Lightning"


Me thinks you have never stood anywhere near an EE Lightning on 'noisy' then................................

I love the smell of Avtur in the morning ...

[Shadow R1]

Ninjaboy said:

Excellent point, i forgot bikes are limited now. ZX10's delimited hit over 200 don't they?

Not limited, on bikes its more an effect of the gearing its carrying combined with aerodynamics.



Thats from my 06 R1.

[Grovsie26]

Id like to see the bike against a lambo aventator. Those things launch like a beast, on autocars test it blasted the gt2 rs into the weeds, would be a bit closer i feel from standing start lol.

[911Viking]

Dan gate master said:

Velogee a Porsche gt2 is not exactly a veyron is it!

Put the Porsche up against a s1000rr or any delimited jap 4 cylinder hyper bike and it will get beaten on that runway, why are you surprised at bike being so quick? They weigh nothing (circa180kg) and make between 170 and 210hp these days .

Actually ran the 911 against a RR1000 a few times and they were fairly equal on rolling start from 100/120 kph, around 210/220 kph the 911 started to pull away, at 250 kph it was gone... That said though, this is a highly modified 911. Any standard 911 or or any other fast standard sports-car would quickly be left behind a super-bike.

[911Viking]

xRIEx said:

996ttalot said:

Chris,

If you are reading this we will lend you one of our 9E20 Porsches - it would crush that bike at Brunters. Ran yesterday at Brunters with 225mph on dash and 213.7gps.





Ken at Nineexcellence.

I don't think 'crush' would be the word; it would probably catch the bike sooner than the GT2RS, but I would imagine the show would be very similar - bike romps away, car catches it when the bike reaches its limited 186mph. I would expect the bike's (quoted) 0-100 time is about the same as your photographed 0-60 time.

I would still love to see it though.

Would be good fun to see a Ver 3... The 911 Ken refer to was NOT run flat out on 0 - 60 or 0 - 100, the 213.7 was carrying speed into the straight and floored probably around 90 mph, not earlier. There was no run off area, so it was braking early and making the turn. The run off area was full of big trucks, so no real flat out Vmax run was possible.

If launched from stand still, I would think 0 - 100 would be around 5.5, maybe a fraction quicker pending grip. The car is now so quick that it is only really fun racing super-bikes

[Brummmie]

911Viking said:

Would be good fun to see a Ver 3... The 911 Ken refer to was NOT run flat out on 0 - 60 or 0 - 100, the 213.7 was carrying speed into the straight and floored probably around 90 mph, not earlier. There was no run off area, so it was braking early and making the turn. The run off area was full of big trucks, so no real flat out Vmax run was possible.

If launched from stand still, I would think 0 - 100 would be around 5.5, maybe a fraction quicker pending grip. The car is now so quick that it is only really fun racing super-bikes

0-100mph in 5.5 means 9 second qtrs?

Edited by Brummmie on Monday 12th November 20:45

[ZeroH]

Brummmie said:

0-100mph in 5.5 means 9 second qtrs?

Edited by Brummmie on Monday 12th November 20:45

Mid 10's I'd guess - certainly not 9s.

You can't really infer much from the 1/4 mile ET though as 911 turbo's are notoriously bad at launching. You can have 10 second 911 turbos that are able to trap mid 140's/150's - by comparison, a stock 997tts (with the latest launch control + pdk) can hit ET's of mid-high 10's and yet barely touch 130mph trap speed.

[moparmick]

If your car can pull 100 in 5.5 secs, i would think 9's are probable. My car pulls 106 in 6.43 and runs 10.16, that was with a 1.41 60ft.
Mick

[HoggyR32]

Great video! Even better that I own a Ducati (albeit not a panigale)

Maybe one day I'll own the Porsche to complete the collection.....

[Ninjajim76]

Mr Whippy said:

xRIEx said:

Ninjajim76 said:

To maintain acceleration at higher speeds you need to throw power at the problem, not torque - at those sorts of speeds power kind of overcomes torque (in a basic sense), which means that you can accelerate hard without the threat of looping the bike.

At a risk of "not this st again," you either don't know what torque is, you don't know what power is, you don't know what the relationship is between the two, our you can't explain stuff for st (or some combination of the above).

Hehe...

You need to throw torque at the problem, which equates to more power

Or flip it around, you want to net power to improve acceleration, so you need to ask the engine for more torque...


I really don't get why it's so hard to grasp either.

Dave

fair enough.... kinda forgot that there are people on here who would understand it properly.... Though please don't assume that just because some of us put down an answer in a particular way we don't understand it properly ourselves.... as a simple explanation of torque v power (even if that in itself isn't true) it's a 'lie' which most people can grasp, and gives them enough of an understanding to be happy....

It's like telling people that lift is created by air having to travel further (and therefore faster) over the upper surface of an aerofoil creating a corresponding drop in pressure which pulls the wing up..... it's a fairly easy, and not entirely accurate, explanation of how it works, but because the physics kind of makes sense a lot of people accept it as fact.

When I'm not sitting here at this computer, I'm stood in front of classes of 18 - 27 year old Engineering Technicians, teaching them basic engineering maths and engineering principles..... I get less than 4 weeks to raise them from secondary school standard to Foundation Degree level..... I have to cut corners sometimes, while still ensuring what I teach them is correct (for a certain value of correctness)....

Edited by Ninjajim76 on Tuesday 13th November 09:20

Edited by Ninjajim76 on Tuesday 13th November 09:21

[off_again]

Grovsie26 said:

Id like to see the bike against a lambo aventator. Those things launch like a beast, on autocars test it blasted the gt2 rs into the weeds, would be a bit closer i feel from standing start lol.

Mmm, £200,000 Lambo vs a £25,000 Ducati.... fair fight?

Hardly.

[Mr Whippy]

xRIEx said:

Mr Whippy said:

That makes sense.

But if it actually accelerates faster at higher speed in a higher gear, the torque at the wheel must be higher, so the propensity to lift the front wheel must be higher too.

As said, I can only gather than this means the bike would be even faster than we see in that video if he'd got the nose back down and opened it up

But instead, it was fast enough even with the front wheel up, and looked cool hehe...

Dave

I think that was a big assumption by the previous poster, I've not seen anything to support that.

A bike is more likely going to want to wheelie when opening the throttle at lower rpm than peak torque (i.e. while torque is rising); for example, my R1 would try to lift on full throttle before 7K, but if you opened it up after passing that it would just propel you towards the horizon with the front wheel on the floor (on a quick dyno chart google, the torque curve is fairly level from 7Kish to 9Kish, where peak torque is produced).

Just for interest, this chart shows thrust curves for a 1098R and a Honda Fireblade in respective gears:

Without seeing the throttle vs time plot I guess we can only speculate what was going on in the video.

I've not actually dragged the footage into a program to manually log the speed vs time but it certainly looks like it's putting on speed faster in the 140-180mph region than it was in the 100-140mph region with it's wheel up.

I can only guess then that the wheel was up for drama, because if it was up through sheer moment arm response to contact patch torque, it'd have been doing it just as much at 140-180mph

Dave

[Grovsie26]

off_again said:

Mmm, £200,000 Lambo vs a £25,000 Ducati.... fair fight?

Hardly.

It's for fun dude. It's a motorbike. Whats fair about 200kg and 200bhp. geesh lighten up.

It would be really fun to go with a bike vs car race for the same money wouldn't it, let me see, Ducati vs BMW 320d with extra's?

[Killboy]

Awesome video. Results hardly surprising. My Adventure bike is more than capable of dispatching some pretty serious machinery (M3s etc) on a 1/4m (thats like an M being taken by a Land Rover ), but after that doesnt have much left in it. Now, sports bikes are in another league all together.

Bang for the buck, bikes are just incredible.

[Hobo]

996ttalot said:

Chris,

If you are reading this we will lend you one of our 9E20 Porsches - it would crush that bike at Brunters. Ran yesterday at Brunters with 225mph on dash and 213.7gps.



Ken at Nineexcellence.

Was looking to see it 'Part 3' had been done as yet & ended up looking at this thread.

Noticed the post above, and obviously the Porsche would destory the bike above 150, but upto this speed would be a distance behind.

For comparison, the Panigale does;

0-60 in 2.98s
0-100 in 5.59s
0-150 in circa 11.00s
0-177 in circa 18.00s

As such, it would appear to be simply the case that the bike would pull ahead quickly, where it would remain until it hit its limiter at 177/178mph, at which point the car reels it in.

IMO, that isn't 'crushing' it at all, merely has a quicker top speed.