RE: Ferrari says: what crisis?
Discussion
Pr1964 said:
Unlike Aston Martin Bentley etc who insist on making the same cars every year and just give them a new name even when they do bring out a new car they're often lacking in finesse, greedy manufacturers who think buyers are fools and who place excessive margin before quality design product and style, they just don’t have that special Ferrari magic.
What complete and utter....GBWC said:
Pr1964 said:
Unlike Aston Martin Bentley etc who insist on making the same cars every year and just give them a new name even when they do bring out a new car they're often lacking in finesse, greedy manufacturers who think buyers are fools and who place excessive margin before quality design product and style, they just don’t have that special Ferrari magic.
What complete and utter....Dave Hedgehog said:
the more they w
e their heritage the more i loose interest in them
Absolutely agree. Grew up loving Ferrari in the 70's and 80's but my aspiration to own a Ferrari now = 0. Brand dilution normally occurs over time unless someone really screws things up. Ferrari are doing a good job to accelerate this process IMO, but would argue they are mid-cycle in this process. Becoming more and more fashion and less and less class, again IMO. e their heritage the more i loose interest in them
I doubt there's even 1200 cars in Reading... It's full of immigrants and poor people, like me 
f328nvl said:
suffolk009 said:
Is that Ferrari very big, or is Luca very small? He looks teeny-tiny next to it.
I was there. It's worse than you think. He's quite big and it is absolutely massive. Chinese like the back seats, so Ferrari sell them big ones.If you want a four seat, Italian grand-tourer with usable legroom in the back, get a Quattroporte.
Pr1964 said:
HighwayStar said:
GBWC said:
Pr1964 said:
Unlike Aston Martin Bentley etc who insist on making the same cars every year and just give them a new name even when they do bring out a new car they're often lacking in finesse, greedy manufacturers who think buyers are fools and who place excessive margin before quality design product and style, they just don’t have that special Ferrari magic.
What complete and utter....AM v8v new in 2005- “priced like a Ferrari f430 drives like a Volvo maybe that’s because they have a Volvo sat nav the A/C pumps go after a year they eat pads discs fuel and tyres” a 3.6 ltr Porsche 997 would out handle out brake and outlast it for 30% less money.” Other than an AM badge and a fair looking body why buy one?
Garbage.
DB9 new in 2003 – resulted in the DBS build quality questionable as bits fall off “not even Ferrari managed that one!” clutches last less than 7,000 miles again not even Ferrari manages that!
Lotus and Aston Martin run by crooks and muppets who only car about maximising their own pay packets, and don’t give a toss about building a world class product.
Lol
And badly? Not to my taste but what have they done wrong Ferrari fan boy?
Pr1964 said:
Yes true Ford not the best owner for AM but the early V8V did have lovely interiors better quality leather like the straps which held up the rear parcel shelf etc the newer ones are cheaper looking and feel cheaper by comparison.
Ferraris were never expected to be reliable as they are lightweight and Italian. Funny how they are now pretty reliable they managed to get that sorted whilst others have failed.
It’s a matter of critical mass Ferrari has got global critical mass they’re ahead of the competition fly into a good number of capital cities in s e asia and you’ll see a ferrari dealership on the drive into town from the airport.
It makes me sad that the likes of Aston Martin, Bentley and Lotus are so incompetently run the future for those brands look bleak, it makes me sad to see them churning out the same old cars year after year when Ferrari and Porsch “in their own way” create new products.
Ok... Yes Ferrari are very successful, no one would deny that. They have F1 as the perfect stage to promote the whole company. It provides a direct link to their road cars which benefit from their race car cutting edge technology. This is what gives them the edge over the likes of Lambo who don't. Only Mclaren can really compete at their level. Ferraris were never expected to be reliable as they are lightweight and Italian. Funny how they are now pretty reliable they managed to get that sorted whilst others have failed.
It’s a matter of critical mass Ferrari has got global critical mass they’re ahead of the competition fly into a good number of capital cities in s e asia and you’ll see a ferrari dealership on the drive into town from the airport.
It makes me sad that the likes of Aston Martin, Bentley and Lotus are so incompetently run the future for those brands look bleak, it makes me sad to see them churning out the same old cars year after year when Ferrari and Porsch “in their own way” create new products.
The very latest Astons are looking like they are starting to move in the right direction. Lotus have been in trouble for a very long time, it's only the last few years that things have started to look really desperate. No doubt many here will say Lotus should be building this or that but the market had moved on whilst they were looking the other way. No cash to develop world class products... Looks like Leyland/Rover all over again.
Not sure where you're coming from re Bentley, their cars all look the same... Then you say Porsche create new products, which all look the same!! Bentleys are refined, they evolve, not about revolution. They are selling more cars than ever and this year turned a profit for the first time. Hardly incompetently run with a bleak future.
I'm guessing basically you don't like Bentleys and just think they're all the same. I certainly wouldn't want one but I'm not blind to what they are... a quality product, reliable and appeal to plenty of people who like to waft rather than live on the red line.
Oh and over the years Porsche have had their problems with 911 and Boxster engine reliability.
Edited by HighwayStar on Monday 12th November 23:48
Pr1964... I know nothing regarding the service costs of a 12C so can't comment. It is well known that Ferrari charge a handsome fee for the pleasure of servicing their cars. I can't imagine that the 2000 or so 12C's sold were purchased without the owner knowing how much servicing was going to set them back.
Why are you saying Bentley won't take sales from Ferrari, no body is claiming they will. They don't even compete in the same market. That's like saying Rolls Royce won't take sales from Ferrari! Neither make cars that are remotely competitivd with Fezza but... There's every chance someone who has a Bentley also had a Ferrari in his stable. Different market, same customer!!!
Why are you saying Bentley won't take sales from Ferrari, no body is claiming they will. They don't even compete in the same market. That's like saying Rolls Royce won't take sales from Ferrari! Neither make cars that are remotely competitivd with Fezza but... There's every chance someone who has a Bentley also had a Ferrari in his stable. Different market, same customer!!!
Pr1964 said:
Agree with most
IMO Bentley are for old grunters and they've had lots of issues mainly electrical and they suit pub landlords who don't fancy a Jag. They brought out the "new GT" looked identical to the old GT..... marketing stupidity good luck to them but they're never going to take any market share from Ferrari.
McLaren will have problems with costs for servicing and parts which is how they will try to turn a profit that will make owning a Ferrari look very cheap, early days but I expect many mp12 owners will get eye watering big bills and McLaren will shoot themselves in the foot before the get critical mass.
Porsche yep pretty dull in the design department but they have the Cayenne and the Panamera neither of which I like at least they are trying and as far as the running gear the new cars are pretty solid and cutting edge the problems with the engines of the 996's were shocking and deserved to send them down but they are so dynamic and offer great value when compared to the likes of Aston et--- that they will attract buyers yet again a company with critical mass.
Both Ferrari and Porsche offer brand confidence.... Lotus Aston Martin do not and Bentley's don't count they're for old grunters...
I'm happy Ferrari's are selling like hot cakes it will mean plenty of second hand available and prices should fall relatively.
Where do you get your information re McLaren servicing costs? I'm not aware that they are out of line with Ferrari or Lamborghini which are their direct rivals.IMO Bentley are for old grunters and they've had lots of issues mainly electrical and they suit pub landlords who don't fancy a Jag. They brought out the "new GT" looked identical to the old GT..... marketing stupidity good luck to them but they're never going to take any market share from Ferrari.
McLaren will have problems with costs for servicing and parts which is how they will try to turn a profit that will make owning a Ferrari look very cheap, early days but I expect many mp12 owners will get eye watering big bills and McLaren will shoot themselves in the foot before the get critical mass.
Porsche yep pretty dull in the design department but they have the Cayenne and the Panamera neither of which I like at least they are trying and as far as the running gear the new cars are pretty solid and cutting edge the problems with the engines of the 996's were shocking and deserved to send them down but they are so dynamic and offer great value when compared to the likes of Aston et--- that they will attract buyers yet again a company with critical mass.
Both Ferrari and Porsche offer brand confidence.... Lotus Aston Martin do not and Bentley's don't count they're for old grunters...
I'm happy Ferrari's are selling like hot cakes it will mean plenty of second hand available and prices should fall relatively.
You do realise that an annual service for a modern Ferrari is £2300 if it doesn't need anything done (Which it often does) That's regardless of mileage because they rarely do more than 3000 a year.
Parts are offensively expensive at times. £2500 for a mirror housing on a Scuderia for example.
Bentley and Aston are less than that I would say.
Nothing wrong with the way Bentley are going, like has already been said, plenty of customers not interested in redline, slide it around extravagance.
Pr1964... Had another read of your posts... You don't like Aston, I can't give you any point re Lotus as we all know they're in trouble... Even they do.
Now Bentley, basically you're not interested in how many cars they sell or that after 10yrs they are finally in profit and sold 20000 cars this year. What you really mean is that you just don't like them, think they all look the same and can't see why anyone would be them but... Instead of saying that say they are in trouble when clearly they're not.
Oh and re Ferrari... Just say you think they are fantastic and you love them, love them, luvvvv them. Sorted.
Now Bentley, basically you're not interested in how many cars they sell or that after 10yrs they are finally in profit and sold 20000 cars this year. What you really mean is that you just don't like them, think they all look the same and can't see why anyone would be them but... Instead of saying that say they are in trouble when clearly they're not.
Oh and re Ferrari... Just say you think they are fantastic and you love them, love them, luvvvv them. Sorted.
Pr1964 said:
Dblue said:
Where do you get your information re McLaren servicing costs? I'm not aware that they are out of line with Ferrari or Lamborghini which are their direct rivals.
You do realise that an annual service for a modern Ferrari is £2300 if it doesn't need anything done (Which it often does) That's regardless of mileage because they rarely do more than 3000 a year.
Parts are offensively expensive at times. £2500 for a mirror housing on a Scuderia for example.
Bentley and Aston are less than that I would say.
Nothing wrong with the way Bentley are going, like has already been said, plenty of customers not interested in redline, slide it around extravagance.
I know someone who was charged £35,000 yes £35,000 for a service on a SLR McLaren only sevice parts and some brake pads wheel alignment etc an insane amount!You do realise that an annual service for a modern Ferrari is £2300 if it doesn't need anything done (Which it often does) That's regardless of mileage because they rarely do more than 3000 a year.
Parts are offensively expensive at times. £2500 for a mirror housing on a Scuderia for example.
Bentley and Aston are less than that I would say.
Nothing wrong with the way Bentley are going, like has already been said, plenty of customers not interested in redline, slide it around extravagance.
My guess is an MP12 is going to be more expensive to service than a 458.
The 458 has service included in the price for several years 3 or more I believe.
I was wrong it's 7 year servicing included. Marketing Genius...... I guess it's just front loaded on the new price but who cares. !
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=995...
Edited by Pr1964 on Tuesday 13th November 17:39
But, that's still not representative of the 12Cs servicing which is pretty much in line with comparable exotics. Yes Ferrari are now throwing in 7 years servicing, watch this space for a reaction I reckon.
McLaren on the other hand have just updated the spec of ALL 12Cs to the current 625PS for gratis. That's a free upgrade to the latest spec. Mac say that all 5000 12Cs they build will be the same.Course they made a hash of like the IRIS Audio/Nav in the first place so they're far from perfect.
Not seen the 458 being a) updated at all and b) Ferrari offering to do that for all the cars sold in the last couple of years.
[quote=Dblue]
Where do you get your information re McLaren servicing costs? I'm not aware that they are out of line with Ferrari or Lamborghini which are their direct rivals.
Parts are offensively expensive at times. £2500 for a mirror housing on a Scuderia for example.
A Scuderia mirror housing is made from carbon fibre though.
Where do you get your information re McLaren servicing costs? I'm not aware that they are out of line with Ferrari or Lamborghini which are their direct rivals.
Parts are offensively expensive at times. £2500 for a mirror housing on a Scuderia for example.
A Scuderia mirror housing is made from carbon fibre though.
cayman-black]blue said:
Where do you get your information re McLaren servicing costs? I'm not aware that they are out of line with Ferrari or Lamborghini which are their direct rivals.
Parts are offensively expensive at times. £2500 for a mirror housing on a Scuderia for example.
A Scuderia mirror housing is made from carbon fibre though.
The servicing costs for a mp4-12c are no more and probably less than those at an official Ferrari dealership. The 2nd year service on the Mclaren will be more than the standard annual one as it involves more work changing the hydraulic suspension fluid but will not be out of line of a major ferrari service either.Parts are offensively expensive at times. £2500 for a mirror housing on a Scuderia for example.
A Scuderia mirror housing is made from carbon fibre though.
The poster above had quoted the cost of servicing an SLR I believe which has very considerable costs although at 35k I am pretty certain it involved more than brake pads and a standard service. Last I recall hearing about the SLR servicing costs for an annual service was more around the 5k mark although I cannot be 100% sure on this I admit.
Pr1964 said:
I know someone who was charged £35,000 yes £35,000 for a service on a SLR McLaren only sevice parts and some brake pads wheel alignment etc an insane amount!
My guess is an MP12 is going to be more expensive to service than a 458.
The 458 has service included in the price for several years 3 or more I believe.
I was wrong it's 7 year servicing included. Marketing Genius...... I guess it's just front loaded on the new price but who cares. !
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=995...
The SLR is a Merc-Mclaren... Mercedes led, built by Mclaren and not the car they would've built for themselves. It was a massively expensive car with horrendously expensive carbon ceramic breaks which were supposed to last the life of the car. I they didn't it was going to cost comedy money. So someone got charged £35k for a service, I'm sure that is not a standard service and details have be left out your gloating post.My guess is an MP12 is going to be more expensive to service than a 458.
The 458 has service included in the price for several years 3 or more I believe.
I was wrong it's 7 year servicing included. Marketing Genius...... I guess it's just front loaded on the new price but who cares. !
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=995...
Edited by Pr1964 on Tuesday 13th November 17:39
The F1 was not known to be any more ridiculous to service than a Ferrari, the 12C is pretty reasonable for what it is as has been highlighted already. Fact is as I pointed out already 2000 customers do not buy 12C's with knowing what they are letting themselves in for re maintenance costs.
Basically if it's not stamped Ferrari it's sh!te and you'll tell us so.
Dblue said:
cayman-black]blue said:
A Scuderia mirror housing is made from FERRARI carbon fibre though.
And £2500 for a mirror housing is not reasonable.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff