RE: PH Blog: price point
Discussion
TORQ said:
After a lifelong pursuit of dicking about with expensive old sheds it would be amazing to actually buy a new car.
This is a big plus. Having a bona fide dealer warranty on a new car and not having to worry (well minimally anyway) about depreciation!How much can it really lose over say 3 years? Maximum £3-4k?
The boggo £5995 Sandero may be perfect day to day motoring.
JonathanLegard said:
CDP said:
Beefmeister said:
This is the boggo model for £8995. I think it's bloody ace!
Except you don't seem to be able to get it with air conditioning unless you move up the range. It's about the one extra that I actually like.I'll have mine in basic spec, off-road tyres, snorkel and big 'UN' stickers please!
Torq, Do you mean the Rancho?
That really was a SUV ahead of its time. 7 seats, huge carrying capacity, massive glass area, Discovery roofline with Alpine Windows or whatever they are called a decade before Land Rover Only 2WD like the basic Dacia now. Plenty of chunky plastics, Range Rover style split tailgate, Standard roofbars, ahead of the fashion, but basically an old Simca, even down to the wings bonnet and doors I think.
That was a design that should have evolved. Post 85, base it on Horizon or newer Pug 309 parts, update it a year or two after Pug brings out a new mid rang hack. Keep it simple. Peugeot. Could have been well ahead of the game.
I would love a reason to own a Duster.....I simply don't need one but you know when they appear used for the price of a half decent posh fridge, I may just get one - sans aircon - to transport the dog the 30 metre jouney to my local beach!
That really was a SUV ahead of its time. 7 seats, huge carrying capacity, massive glass area, Discovery roofline with Alpine Windows or whatever they are called a decade before Land Rover Only 2WD like the basic Dacia now. Plenty of chunky plastics, Range Rover style split tailgate, Standard roofbars, ahead of the fashion, but basically an old Simca, even down to the wings bonnet and doors I think.
That was a design that should have evolved. Post 85, base it on Horizon or newer Pug 309 parts, update it a year or two after Pug brings out a new mid rang hack. Keep it simple. Peugeot. Could have been well ahead of the game.
I would love a reason to own a Duster.....I simply don't need one but you know when they appear used for the price of a half decent posh fridge, I may just get one - sans aircon - to transport the dog the 30 metre jouney to my local beach!
Edited by wildcat45 on Friday 9th November 20:48
Edited by wildcat45 on Friday 9th November 20:49
I don't know who is advising Renault here but they've cocked up royally.
An otherwise utterly basic car like the one above, with the white paint and plain bumpers, but with standard air-con would really sell in significant numbers. Schoolboy error. A chance to create a proper niche there - especially if, as mentioned, they could do a panel version.
I've been driving my girlfriends old 190 while my W210 slowly works it's way through my mechanics seemingly impossible workload (like all the decent specialists he's daftly busy) and, truthfully, really miss the A/C - only because we have such a bizarre climate, in which the rapid de-misting coupled with easy cooling really works. You sort of need it less in hotter climes, strangely.
I can't understand it. Still, looks like a top car. I suspect the cash rich may buy - it's long, long way form a daft, over-specced Audi on just about affordable HP. The love this car is getting already from petrolheads is remarkable.
An otherwise utterly basic car like the one above, with the white paint and plain bumpers, but with standard air-con would really sell in significant numbers. Schoolboy error. A chance to create a proper niche there - especially if, as mentioned, they could do a panel version.
I've been driving my girlfriends old 190 while my W210 slowly works it's way through my mechanics seemingly impossible workload (like all the decent specialists he's daftly busy) and, truthfully, really miss the A/C - only because we have such a bizarre climate, in which the rapid de-misting coupled with easy cooling really works. You sort of need it less in hotter climes, strangely.
I can't understand it. Still, looks like a top car. I suspect the cash rich may buy - it's long, long way form a daft, over-specced Audi on just about affordable HP. The love this car is getting already from petrolheads is remarkable.
W124 said:
I don't know who is advising Renault here but they've cocked up royally.
An otherwise utterly basic car like the one above, with the white paint and plain bumpers, but with standard air-con would really sell in significant numbers. Schoolboy error. A chance to create a proper niche there - especially if, as mentioned, they could do a panel version.
I've been driving my girlfriends old 190 while my W210 slowly works it's way through my mechanics seemingly impossible workload (like all the decent specialists he's daftly busy) and, truthfully, really miss the A/C - only because we have such a bizarre climate, in which the rapid de-misting coupled with easy cooling really works. You sort of need it less in hotter climes, strangely.
I can't understand it. Still, looks like a top car. I suspect the cash rich may buy - it's long, long way form a daft, over-specced Audi on just about affordable HP. The love this car is getting already from petrolheads is remarkable.
I agree they missed a trick re the A/C option. It's amazing how manufacturers just don't listen to customers.An otherwise utterly basic car like the one above, with the white paint and plain bumpers, but with standard air-con would really sell in significant numbers. Schoolboy error. A chance to create a proper niche there - especially if, as mentioned, they could do a panel version.
I've been driving my girlfriends old 190 while my W210 slowly works it's way through my mechanics seemingly impossible workload (like all the decent specialists he's daftly busy) and, truthfully, really miss the A/C - only because we have such a bizarre climate, in which the rapid de-misting coupled with easy cooling really works. You sort of need it less in hotter climes, strangely.
I can't understand it. Still, looks like a top car. I suspect the cash rich may buy - it's long, long way form a daft, over-specced Audi on just about affordable HP. The love this car is getting already from petrolheads is remarkable.
You may have been out the game a while re Audi though, some of their HP offers are incredibly cheap. Because their residual values are strong they can reduce the monthly hit. It's one of the reasons why you see so many on the road.
Renault/Dacia is a business. It's aim is to make money.
Maybe they could have sold loads of the 8995 version if they added AC, but they wouldn't have made as much/ any money.
The profit is in the options, and the game is about managing the grade mix. The 8995 is an entry model, an attention grabber - and judging by this thread it's working.
I agree with Chris though, the changes that are happening in manufacturer's pricing strategies are interesting.
Maybe they could have sold loads of the 8995 version if they added AC, but they wouldn't have made as much/ any money.
The profit is in the options, and the game is about managing the grade mix. The 8995 is an entry model, an attention grabber - and judging by this thread it's working.
I agree with Chris though, the changes that are happening in manufacturer's pricing strategies are interesting.
Maldini35 - you are right. I have no idea abut HP!
I do think it's bare silly to not offer AC as an option on the splendid "UN spec' Duster. There are a large number of people to whom that car, and it's philosophy, are deeply cool. Some might say my definition of 'cool' is simply 'wrong' but I'm sure Renault have certainly missed a trick here. They could have found a new niche. I'm not sure that they grasp what a hot product that flat white basic car could be. Thing is - that model will fit in from Dalston to Dundee but the people who would love to buy it have got used to A/C - myself included.
I do think it's bare silly to not offer AC as an option on the splendid "UN spec' Duster. There are a large number of people to whom that car, and it's philosophy, are deeply cool. Some might say my definition of 'cool' is simply 'wrong' but I'm sure Renault have certainly missed a trick here. They could have found a new niche. I'm not sure that they grasp what a hot product that flat white basic car could be. Thing is - that model will fit in from Dalston to Dundee but the people who would love to buy it have got used to A/C - myself included.
I've gone "back to basics" in a Citroen Nemo Multispace for the last few days (in lieu of my LR Discovery). The plasticky steering wheel and the lack of torque is grim. Chris cites the M135i as a VFM proposition and I'm sorely tempted... but I suspect these cheap Dacia barges are nasty.
TBH if running a nasty daily driver was a necessity to justify a weekend toy - the toy would have to be jettisoned.
TBH if running a nasty daily driver was a necessity to justify a weekend toy - the toy would have to be jettisoned.
wildcat45 said:
Torq, Do you mean the Rancho?
That really was a SUV ahead of its time. 7 seats, huge carrying capacity, massive glass area, Discovery roofline with Alpine Windows or whatever they are called a decade before Land Rover Only 2WD like the basic Dacia now. Plenty of chunky plastics, Range Rover style split tailgate, Standard roofbars, ahead of the fashion, but basically an old Simca, even down to the wings bonnet and doors I think.
That was a design that should have evolved. Post 85, base it on Horizon or newer Pug 309 parts, update it a year or two after Pug brings out a new mid rang hack. Keep it simple. Peugeot. Could have been well ahead of the game.
I would love a reason to own a Duster.....I simply don't need one but you know when they appear used for the price of a half decent posh fridge, I may just get one - sans aircon - to transport the dog the 30 metre jouney to my local beach!
Yes Wildcat, the Rancho was the one I was referring too, well remembered. It could have been a success but the audience clearly wasn't ready!That really was a SUV ahead of its time. 7 seats, huge carrying capacity, massive glass area, Discovery roofline with Alpine Windows or whatever they are called a decade before Land Rover Only 2WD like the basic Dacia now. Plenty of chunky plastics, Range Rover style split tailgate, Standard roofbars, ahead of the fashion, but basically an old Simca, even down to the wings bonnet and doors I think.
That was a design that should have evolved. Post 85, base it on Horizon or newer Pug 309 parts, update it a year or two after Pug brings out a new mid rang hack. Keep it simple. Peugeot. Could have been well ahead of the game.
I would love a reason to own a Duster.....I simply don't need one but you know when they appear used for the price of a half decent posh fridge, I may just get one - sans aircon - to transport the dog the 30 metre jouney to my local beach!
Edited by wildcat45 on Friday 9th November 20:48
Edited by wildcat45 on Friday 9th November 20:49
Edited by TORQ on Friday 9th November 23:29
Frimley111R said:
I'm not convinced about the UK though. Badge snobbery is rife here, more so than anywhere else....
I'm not sure this is a correct assertion. The UK was the first European market to start buying Japanese or Korean cars in any numbers. The UK gave up on it's home grown brands years ago so therefore has little brand loyalty in the way that Germany, France and Italy mainly only buy home grown brands.Although I feel that the Dacia will take some time to pick up momentum in the UK market, the UK car buyer is more concerned with value for money than outright badge importance.
AbarthChris said:
I've been spending a lot of time working in Africa recently, where cars like this are rife. I've found that you dont really need air-con here, so you definitely dont need it in the UK!
I'll have mine in basic spec, off-road tyres, snorkel and big 'UN' stickers please!
To the contrary, I've found that I've needed AC the UK recently more than I needed AC in 38C in Africa...its the only way to defog my windscreen on really cold & wet days! I'll have mine in basic spec, off-road tyres, snorkel and big 'UN' stickers please!
Maldini35 said:
That does look great.
Brilliant concept but is it better in theory than in practice?
Will the basic experience grate after a few months? Have we been institutionalised into thinking we now need all the usual added creature comforts? Will you find yourself chosing the wife's car for longer journies?
Dunno, but I will definitely be keeping an eye on people's experiences over the next 12 months.
To answer the point I have emboldened, the answer currently is often, yes. And my wife's car is a 1.9D Citroen Berlingo Mulitspace with 190k miles on the clock (show how often it has done long journeys) whilst my car is an XK8. Part of the reason for using the Berlingo is space, but it has other appeals too. As long as speed isn't a priority! Brilliant concept but is it better in theory than in practice?
Will the basic experience grate after a few months? Have we been institutionalised into thinking we now need all the usual added creature comforts? Will you find yourself chosing the wife's car for longer journies?
Dunno, but I will definitely be keeping an eye on people's experiences over the next 12 months.
I would certainly be interested in a Duster as a replacement and will be going to look at them.
In reality, especially at this level, you don't expect your base car to do more than wash its face financially if at all (often they make a loss per unit but sell in VERY small volumes). It really is the car you don't want to sell, so you look to get people into the options and pack game - after all what you charge the punter 1,500 for only costs you 150. I remember one occasion when adding winding windows actually cost more because they were another level of complexity! The first generation new Mini was only profitable because of the rich upgrading that shocked even BMW (hence shortages of some parts in the early days) otherwise its overly complex design made it struggle.
So you use the headlines to get people in and then ramp them up - except - the big difference between today and 30 years ago when Skoda and Lada plied there Soviet wares is that today a second hand car is a good bet. A three year old car still has likely ten more years mostly trouble free motoring left in it, so where in the past you offered new car protection that holds less well today.
So I do find the pricing a little heavy - as many have said if you want 4x4 and diesel these aren't that cheap. Individually speccing Aircon, Diesel and 4x4 would make my ideal car - but likely make no money for Renault! If you can live with base great, but outside of a trusty work tool how many can really live with such low levels, a second hand Skoda Roomster instead?
(this writer doesn't own a car anymore, only a motorbike - a roof can sometimes seem very luxurious when the misses won't let me have her car on a wet day!!)
So you use the headlines to get people in and then ramp them up - except - the big difference between today and 30 years ago when Skoda and Lada plied there Soviet wares is that today a second hand car is a good bet. A three year old car still has likely ten more years mostly trouble free motoring left in it, so where in the past you offered new car protection that holds less well today.
So I do find the pricing a little heavy - as many have said if you want 4x4 and diesel these aren't that cheap. Individually speccing Aircon, Diesel and 4x4 would make my ideal car - but likely make no money for Renault! If you can live with base great, but outside of a trusty work tool how many can really live with such low levels, a second hand Skoda Roomster instead?
(this writer doesn't own a car anymore, only a motorbike - a roof can sometimes seem very luxurious when the misses won't let me have her car on a wet day!!)
Edited by Numeric on Saturday 10th November 06:54
Well done Renault for inventing a new sub brand , well done the PR teams for persuading the GB Journo's that this is a great car , and a new way to travel in 2012
What next a 1 Make Race series, articles in Country Life?.
Sorry folks but this is not progress its regression.
NOW, back to restoring the RIVA
What next a 1 Make Race series, articles in Country Life?.
Sorry folks but this is not progress its regression.
NOW, back to restoring the RIVA
Worth mentioning the various fog clear / anti-fog products that are out there, I've tried a few and they work remarkably well. Quite hard to apply at first (windows need a very good clean, for a start) but once you get it right they are impressive, and they last for ages.
The wife has AC and a Ford quick clear windscreen and we often leave for work at the same time, my car (no AC, just anti-fog treatment) is always ready before hers in the morning.
The wife has AC and a Ford quick clear windscreen and we often leave for work at the same time, my car (no AC, just anti-fog treatment) is always ready before hers in the morning.
As much love as there is for these cars within the motoring journalists and PH communities, I just can't see these catching on over here.
I think the current culture of over-leasing/financing will keep the brand snobs sticking to their MINIS, Audis and BMWs, the thinking people who like to get VFM will stick to Skodas / Fords / Mazda / better Koreans etc, the people with no interest in motoring but afraid to go Korean will stick to Nissans / Toyotas / Peugeots / Vauxhall and the cheapskates will look at the Koreans.
I just don't see how it will slot in to Britain's market. It's not like the Renault support brings a huge amount of credibility either as they've lost huge market shares and, except for the Clio, slowly fading from the public eye. It also has one of those manufacturers names Brits are unsure how to pronounce - It's a what.... Dasia, Daychia, Daahsia?
It is a shame as I don't doubt it'd be a fantastic cheap and cheerful family wagon, they are everywhere in Eastern Europe.
I guess my question is, what car exactly will these threaten sales of? Nissan Qashqai / Juke? Ford Kuga? Kia Sportage? Skoda Yeti? Not many spring to mind, all fairly niche and with strong brand identity, hence why I think it may struggle.
I think the current culture of over-leasing/financing will keep the brand snobs sticking to their MINIS, Audis and BMWs, the thinking people who like to get VFM will stick to Skodas / Fords / Mazda / better Koreans etc, the people with no interest in motoring but afraid to go Korean will stick to Nissans / Toyotas / Peugeots / Vauxhall and the cheapskates will look at the Koreans.
I just don't see how it will slot in to Britain's market. It's not like the Renault support brings a huge amount of credibility either as they've lost huge market shares and, except for the Clio, slowly fading from the public eye. It also has one of those manufacturers names Brits are unsure how to pronounce - It's a what.... Dasia, Daychia, Daahsia?
It is a shame as I don't doubt it'd be a fantastic cheap and cheerful family wagon, they are everywhere in Eastern Europe.
I guess my question is, what car exactly will these threaten sales of? Nissan Qashqai / Juke? Ford Kuga? Kia Sportage? Skoda Yeti? Not many spring to mind, all fairly niche and with strong brand identity, hence why I think it may struggle.
Edited by vrsmxtb on Saturday 10th November 09:08
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