RE: GT86: the next step
Discussion
BadBanshee said:
I read the Autoexpress review of the new more powerful GT86 and they criticized it for having more grip and therefore being less fun...
...Erm, how can more grip mean less fun?! I'm sure you'd still be able to slide about in it, you would just have to do it at higher speeds, which surely must equal MORE fun! No?
No....Erm, how can more grip mean less fun?! I'm sure you'd still be able to slide about in it, you would just have to do it at higher speeds, which surely must equal MORE fun! No?
BadBanshee said:
I read the Autoexpress review of the new more powerful GT86 and they criticized it for having more grip and therefore being less fun...
...Erm, how can more grip mean less fun?! I'm sure you'd still be able to slide about in it, you would just have to do it at higher speeds, which surely must equal MORE fun! No?
In reality no, not really. Simply because you can't drive that fast anywhere other than a track. Which puts us back at square one again. Hence they make a car that's fun to drive on the road and everyone complains it's underpowered and doesn't have blingy enough wheels......Erm, how can more grip mean less fun?! I'm sure you'd still be able to slide about in it, you would just have to do it at higher speeds, which surely must equal MORE fun! No?
Raitzi said:
Even the tires of the base car was said to be too grippy in Finnish magazine review. Luckily owners do not have use N-spec tires 
215 width tyres aren't exactly thin for a car of that weight/power - many heavier performance cars use ( or used ) a thinner, smaller tyre.Having said that, they probably arrived at that size after some deliberation with regard to supply/showroom appeal/DRG/handling balance and grip
juansolo said:
In reality no, not really. Simply because you can't drive that fast anywhere other than a track. Which puts us back at square one again. Hence they make a car that's fun to drive on the road and everyone complains it's underpowered and doesn't have blingy enough wheels...
I've never driven a RWD car so forgive me if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, but on British roads is there even enough space to safely lose grip and start oversteering round bends? It's rare to come across corners that aren't hidden and have a wide enough and deserted enough road to do that on.I'll use the Cayman analogy again. I personally think the smaller 2.7 engined Cayman is more involving (hence more entertaining) to drive than the 3.4. The 3.4 is MUCH quicker, but with it it's also much grippier. You put your foot down in the 3.4 and it's off. With the 2.7 you'll have to drop a cog and wring it's neck a little, which is more exciting as it starts to wail when you spank it, and spanking it (well anything really) is fun.
The grip thing though is the major issue. The 3.4 sits on much wider tyres. 235/265 vs 205/235. It's a lot more rubber on the road meaning that come the point that it is letting go, you're travelling. More so than is really sensible on a road.
It's not that you goon the 2.7 around everywhere, it's that there is a little slip, it'll squirm, it'll move, you might get a bit of impromptu oversteer out of roundabouts with it. I'm not talking big D1 drifts here. I'm talking that little bit of play that lets you know you're dancing around on it's limits. Which is again, where things are interesting/fun. The important thing is that these limits are much lower than the faster car. So where I can have fun legally and at a safer speed, in the 3.4 you have to be seriously moving to get the same effect.
FWIW, when I bought mine it had the big wheels on. I swapped it back to the standard wheels which resulted in a marked improvement in ride (an extra inch of more compliant tyre wall. It still isn't brilliant, but it's tolerable now) and stopped the car understeering badly. It certainly didn't have enough power to do much more than push the front end on in roundabouts and on the whole, they made the car less fun to drive all round.
I'll leave you with this. One of the most fun drives I've ever had in anything was back from a friends last year in my 113hp Merc 190E on 185's in the snow. I doubt I got much over 40mph the entire journey, certainly when I got on to the regular roads I rarely got out of 2nd I expect. Sideways EVERYWHERE.
If anything, I expect the GT86 still has too much grip
However, if you want to put a car around a race track, you'd be better off with the 3.4 (R ideally). Then again, if you want to drive around race tracks, you'd actually be far better off with a Caterham/Lotus/race car... But that's a whole other discussion.
The grip thing though is the major issue. The 3.4 sits on much wider tyres. 235/265 vs 205/235. It's a lot more rubber on the road meaning that come the point that it is letting go, you're travelling. More so than is really sensible on a road.
It's not that you goon the 2.7 around everywhere, it's that there is a little slip, it'll squirm, it'll move, you might get a bit of impromptu oversteer out of roundabouts with it. I'm not talking big D1 drifts here. I'm talking that little bit of play that lets you know you're dancing around on it's limits. Which is again, where things are interesting/fun. The important thing is that these limits are much lower than the faster car. So where I can have fun legally and at a safer speed, in the 3.4 you have to be seriously moving to get the same effect.
FWIW, when I bought mine it had the big wheels on. I swapped it back to the standard wheels which resulted in a marked improvement in ride (an extra inch of more compliant tyre wall. It still isn't brilliant, but it's tolerable now) and stopped the car understeering badly. It certainly didn't have enough power to do much more than push the front end on in roundabouts and on the whole, they made the car less fun to drive all round.
I'll leave you with this. One of the most fun drives I've ever had in anything was back from a friends last year in my 113hp Merc 190E on 185's in the snow. I doubt I got much over 40mph the entire journey, certainly when I got on to the regular roads I rarely got out of 2nd I expect. Sideways EVERYWHERE.
If anything, I expect the GT86 still has too much grip
However, if you want to put a car around a race track, you'd be better off with the 3.4 (R ideally). Then again, if you want to drive around race tracks, you'd actually be far better off with a Caterham/Lotus/race car... But that's a whole other discussion.
Edited by juansolo on Sunday 18th November 15:59
Finnish magazine wrote that subaru has admitted that they want to have turbo or supercharger in BRZ.
Here is google translation of the article:
"Toyota and Subaru's jointly developed by a small sports car is fun, but Subaru wants it more power.
Many tuning workshops have already made the same observation as the Subaru BRZ and increased's, Toyota GT86's and North America, the Scion FR-S's 2.0-liter turbo engine or compressor. Now the thing is more formal, as Subaru's development department has admitted it. However, no one wants to take credit for personal revelation.
The thing is, however, very simple, because the new Forest's under the hood is a supercharged 2.0-liter direct injection. Which is, of course, horizontally opposed (boxer), therefore such as the BRZ sports car in the future. The European version of the engine develops 177 kW, 184 kW in the United States and Japan, 206 kW. Is one of the three options above BRZ for?
This is very likely, as Automotive News magazine has learned that Subaru turbo engine uses direct injection of its own, and developed by Toyota as the naturally aspirated engines. Probably the sports model are three options for the most effective, with a maximum torque of 339 Nm. It should be enough to silence the criticisms of the performance of the car."
http://tekniikanmaailma.fi/uutiset/subaru-haluaa-b...
Here is google translation of the article:
"Toyota and Subaru's jointly developed by a small sports car is fun, but Subaru wants it more power.
Many tuning workshops have already made the same observation as the Subaru BRZ and increased's, Toyota GT86's and North America, the Scion FR-S's 2.0-liter turbo engine or compressor. Now the thing is more formal, as Subaru's development department has admitted it. However, no one wants to take credit for personal revelation.
The thing is, however, very simple, because the new Forest's under the hood is a supercharged 2.0-liter direct injection. Which is, of course, horizontally opposed (boxer), therefore such as the BRZ sports car in the future. The European version of the engine develops 177 kW, 184 kW in the United States and Japan, 206 kW. Is one of the three options above BRZ for?
This is very likely, as Automotive News magazine has learned that Subaru turbo engine uses direct injection of its own, and developed by Toyota as the naturally aspirated engines. Probably the sports model are three options for the most effective, with a maximum torque of 339 Nm. It should be enough to silence the criticisms of the performance of the car."
http://tekniikanmaailma.fi/uutiset/subaru-haluaa-b...
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