RE: Holy smoke - Jag's 70s diesel flirtations

[mat777]

Max_Torque said:

When Jag diesels are as good as the German ones, then they can start crowing on about it. Until then, get your heads down lads you've got some catching up to do..........

Until Jag can explain why their XF 2.2D manual is less economical than and makes more CO2 than an Audi A6 3.0 auto, then my family will unfortunately continue to buy German

[P2BS]

Rammy76 said:

P2BS said:

Not that it's a boast, they had for the most part a dangerous 70-something bhp - but they did sip fuel.

Strange statement to make.

70 BHP would only be classed as dangerous if you allow yourself to get in a situation which allows it to be.

I've driven many low powered cars and yet to find them dangerous.

It's when you get out of, say, a Supermirafiori with the glorious 2000TC 115bhp engine, & get into the heavy 2000D with 60bhp. Then drive it in a 1970's Ireland with no motorways & try to overtake a 40mph HGV... dangerously underpowered.

[big_boz]

P2BS said:

It's when you get out of, say, a Supermirafiori with the glorious 2000TC 115bhp engine, & get into the heavy 2000D with 60bhp. Then drive it in a 1970's Ireland with no motorways & try to overtake a 40mph HGV... dangerously underpowered.

What, did you not know it was slow before you tried to overtake? that sounds like bad driving to me

[300bhp/ton]

big_boz said:

P2BS said:

It's when you get out of, say, a Supermirafiori with the glorious 2000TC 115bhp engine, & get into the heavy 2000D with 60bhp. Then drive it in a 1970's Ireland with no motorways & try to overtake a 40mph HGV... dangerously underpowered.

What, did you not know it was slow before you tried to overtake? that sounds like bad driving to me

+1 the only thing dangerous there was the driver.

[Ninjajim76]

Shame they're not still looking into the micro-turbine option (even if we're still to catch up on the technology front!) in the C-X75..... high-performance, distinctive (if incredibly high pitched) exhaust note, responsive (electric final drive remember), and, wait for it....... diesel (essentially)...

cue conjecture...

[JREwing]

mat777 said:

Until Jag can explain why their XF 2.2D manual is less economical than and makes more CO2 than an Audi A6 3.0 auto, then my family will unfortunately continue to buy German

Is there a manual XF?

[AAGR]

I wonder how many of the 'diesel cars are st' brigade actually drive such machines, or only read about them ?

Me ? I've got a current-model Jaguar XF 3.0DS (with 271bhp and an 8-speed ZF automatic gearbox). Bloody marvellous, with more real-world performance than any sane driver ever needs. So it isn't quite as economical as my previous BMWs. So what - a super-satisfying machine in every other way ....

[jbi]

300bhp/ton said:

jbi said:

VM Motori

Supplier of diesel's for jeep cherokee's and early range rovers

Eat head gaskets for breakfast lunch and dinner

Funny we never had a single HG issue with our RR VM.

I'm assuming you must be one of the few who maintained theirs then and tightened up the head bolts at the correct intervals?

I wouldn't buy one second hand though

[masermartin]

chrisemersons98 said:

Embarrassingly i was given a maestro diesel as a company car many years ago, possibly the worst, slowest, miserable car i have ever driven. I think that must've had a the morris oxford diesel in it. Flat out it would just touch 65mph up one of the hills on the M62 !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMCFeoR9oSg&fea...

[Johnnytheboy]

AAGR said:

I wonder how many of the 'diesel cars are st' brigade actually drive such machines, or only read about them ?

Me ? I've got a current-model Jaguar XF 3.0DS (with 271bhp and an 8-speed ZF automatic gearbox). Bloody marvellous, with more real-world performance than any sane driver ever needs. So it isn't quite as economical as my previous BMWs. So what - a super-satisfying machine in every other way ....

Looking at your car history you're old enough to know how they've improved.

Would you have had a diesel Jaguar in 1975?

[AAGR]

Johnnytheboy said:

AAGR said:

I wonder how many of the 'diesel cars are st' brigade actually drive such machines, or only read about them ?

Me ? I've got a current-model Jaguar XF 3.0DS (with 271bhp and an 8-speed ZF automatic gearbox). Bloody marvellous, with more real-world performance than any sane driver ever needs. So it isn't quite as economical as my previous BMWs. So what - a super-satisfying machine in every other way ....

Looking at your car history you're old enough to know how they've improved.

Would you have had a diesel Jaguar in 1975?

No, certainly not - and, by the way, pictures of the VM installation have appeared in one of Graham Robson's feature articles. When he interviewed ex-technical chief engineer, Trevor Crisp, who went on to become CEO of Cosworth, Trevor pointed out that Jaguar had also tried out cars with BMW 6-cylinder diesels too ....

Incidentally, the Norman Dewis story about Sir William Lyons quizzing him about diesel engined work doesn't quite ring true, for Sir William retired, completely, in 1972 before any diesel-engine installation actually began ....

[VladD]

AAGR said:

I wonder how many of the 'diesel cars are st' brigade actually drive such machines, or only read about them ?

Me ? I've got a current-model Jaguar XF 3.0DS (with 271bhp and an 8-speed ZF automatic gearbox). Bloody marvellous, with more real-world performance than any sane driver ever needs. So it isn't quite as economical as my previous BMWs. So what - a super-satisfying machine in every other way ....

When you say satisfying in every other way, I assume that you're not inclding the noise it makes when pressing on? My S-Type 3.0 is quiet most of the time so you can't tell if it's a petrol or diesel, but every now and again when you give it a bit of stick, it does make quite a pleasant sound. I'm guessing that yours doesn't.

[LewisR]

JREwing said:

mat777 said:

Until Jag can explain why their XF 2.2D manual is less economical than and makes more CO2 than an Audi A6 3.0 auto, then my family will unfortunately continue to buy German

Is there a manual XF?

Nope, there is no manual XF. I'd know if there were.

[AAGR]

VladD said:

When you say satisfying in every other way, I assume that you're not inclding the noise it makes when pressing on? My S-Type 3.0 is quiet most of the time so you can't tell if it's a petrol or diesel, but every now and again when you give it a bit of stick, it does make quite a pleasant sound. I'm guessing that yours doesn't.

Well-maintained modern Jaguars don't make noises at all - just a whoosshh or two ....

[VladD]

AAGR said:

VladD said:

When you say satisfying in every other way, I assume that you're not inclding the noise it makes when pressing on? My S-Type 3.0 is quiet most of the time so you can't tell if it's a petrol or diesel, but every now and again when you give it a bit of stick, it does make quite a pleasant sound. I'm guessing that yours doesn't.

Well-maintained modern Jaguars don't make noises at all - just a whoosshh or two ....

I'm hoping the F-Type will make some noise.

[hygt2]

Max_Torque said:

Funnily enough i was part of the team that designed/developed and calibrated both the 2.7 and the 3.0 engines. Neither are as good an engine as the German equivalent for reasons that are too long and complicated to go into here ;-(

Why is that? I would love to here this from the engineering prospective.

[RobCrezz]

Max_Torque said:

mat205125 said:

Max_Torque said:

When Jag diesels are as good as the German ones, then they can start crowing on about it. Until then, get your heads down lads you've got some catching up to do..........

Really?

Have you tried the V6 JLR 2.7 diesel?

Funnily enough i was part of the team that designed/developed and calibrated both the 2.7 and the 3.0 engines. Neither are as good an engine as the German equivalent for reasons that are too long and complicated to go into here ;-(

I would be interested to know as well if you get time to type it up.

[dbdb]

AAGR said:

Incidentally, the Norman Dewis story about Sir William Lyons quizzing him about diesel engined work doesn't quite ring true, for Sir William retired, completely, in 1972 before any diesel-engine installation actually began ....

Sir William Lyons took an active interest in Jaguar well after he retired. Here he is with a prototype XJ40 in the early 1980s.

[300bhp/ton]

jbi said:

I'm assuming you must be one of the few who maintained theirs then and tightened up the head bolts at the correct intervals?

I wouldn't buy one second hand though

I can't vouch for the unit in the Jeep or the earlier 2.4 used in the RR, but the 2.5 we had was superb.

[jbi]

300bhp/ton said:

jbi said:

I'm assuming you must be one of the few who maintained theirs then and tightened up the head bolts at the correct intervals?

I wouldn't buy one second hand though

I can't vouch for the unit in the Jeep or the earlier 2.4 used in the RR, but the 2.5 we had was superb.

same basic motor I believe.

It was a boat engine, adapted for use in cars and found in range rovers, cherokee's, grand cherokee's, voyagers and london taxi's

The basic engine is sound, but head gaskets are a real problem as the head bolts don't get tightened properly in general due to lack of proper servicing.

It was such an issue they divided the head into 4 pieces, due to it being prone to warping/cracking