Re: Where Jag went wrong

[JREwing]

Hellbound said:

I won't be surprised if this car gets 5 stars all round by British motoring journalists.

Are you trying to imply it won't be very good but will be the subject of favour?

[A Scotsman]

Looking forward to seeing the coupe.

[telecat]

As I think Ford Proved, Never listen to Americans when you want to replace a car. I can't see how Jaguar expect an F-Type to succeed with an Auto in the states. BMW know they HAVE to supply a manual or the market for the car is severely curtailed.

[dingocooke]

I went to an XJS launch as a kid with my dad, when the car was unveiled, there was a low groan from the assembled crowd, followed by an embarrassed silence; not good!! As the write up says, one of the Jag marketing bods explained that focus groups in America wanted it bigger inside, auto aircon etc; a more head on competitor to a Corvette he said.
I was only a young un at the time and lusted over any E type and couldnt believe it...4 decades on I still can't!! But hey be boring if we all liked the same thing !!

Edited by dingocooke on Thursday 15th November 12:36

[LuS1fer]

The XJS was the ugliest and most disappointing car I ever clapped eyes on when it was lucnched. if they couldn't impress a 15 year old, they were clearly targeting Americans. the earlier Citroen SM showed how ugly the XJS was, as did the company's own classic XJ.

[ZesPak]

Whatever they did in the past, with the new XJ, the XF and soon the F-type, I think they have some of the most desireable cars in their segment.

Put the XJ next to the 7-er or even the S-Class, the XJ just looks the part. Same with the XF, the current E-class is a great looking car and it oozes class, but the XF is just a lot... prettier.

Then come the F-Type, the previous boxster looked like st (I'm a Porsche fan! I even WANTED a Boxster at one point, despite the looks), the current one looks soo much beter, but if I bought one, I think I'd regret it everytime I see a F-type on the road.

Great looking cars, and from my experience in the XF, on par with the competition on all other aspects as well.

While Peugeot and Citroën make some good looking cars now by making them look more "German", they actually turn boring. Jaguar really does stand out in the crowd, the only think you could accuse them of is that they've taken too much design cues from Aston Martin. And that's hardly an insult, is it?

Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 15th November 12:07

[RemarkLima]

Agree that the new Jag line up is superb, rather than wallowing in the past - I mean the X-Type and S-Type, great engineering but 'kin 'ell, you need a pipe and slippers to want to be in one!

It's where Jag went wrong IMHO, spent too much time looking back as those halcyon days and thinking everyone else was! The E-Type was such a success because it was of the time.

[LuS1fer]

I don't see how people think the XF stands out, it blends into the German designs very welll. The XJ is far more distinct at the rear but in a Citroenesque way - wilfully overstyled.

[Luca Brasi]

telecat said:

BMW know they HAVE to supply a manual or the market for the car is severely curtailed.

You would think that but I wonder how many manual E60 M5's and M6's they actually sold in the US.

ZesPak said:

Put the XJ next to the 7-er or even the S-Class, the XJ just looks the part.

Funny that, to me it's the complete opposite. Think the new gen XJ looks wilfully awful.

Edited by Luca Brasi on Thursday 15th November 12:14

[fatboy b]

renrut said:

I'm a little concerned that all of the current crop of jags look very much from the same mold esp the XF and XJ.

The same could be said about most of the BMW range too.

Edited by fatboy b on Thursday 15th November 12:19

[crofty1984]

kambites said:

Captain Muppet said:

kambites said:

Captain Muppet said:

Maybe they priced it to make a profit based on investment and BOM cost. I'm not sure a lack of excessive greed is "gross inefficiency".

But then I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

If they literally couldn't make them fast enough for a significant proportion of the production run, then I'd say it was under-priced, almost by definition.

I'd define "underpriced" as priced too low to make a profit..

Ah, OK. I'd define it as priced to low to make the maximum possible profit.

Per vehicle.
Who's to say if it was a tenner more expensive they wouldn't lose half their customers?

[ZesPak]

renrut said:

I'm a little concerned that all of the current crop of jags look very much from the same mold esp the XF and XJ. I always liked Jags because they didn't seem to be tow the 'corporate face' as much as their rivals, often the corporate face only really looks good on one car in the range and the rest it looks like it was squeezed to fit.

Hmm,

Maybe the front a bit, but imho they carry the same nose but with totally different proportions:

[fatboy b]

LuS1fer said:

I don't see how people think the XF stands out, it blends into the German designs very welll. The XJ is far more distinct at the rear but in a Citroenesque way - wilfully overstyled.

It does. I've just changed my A5 for an XF because I was getting board/frustrated with the inside of the A5. XF interior really stands head and shoulders above Audi/BWW interiors imo.

[renrut]

fatboy b said:

renrut said:

I'm a little concerned that all of the current crop of jags look very much from the same mold esp the XF and XJ.

The same could be said about most of the BMW range too.

Edited by fatboy b on Thursday 15th November 12:19

Thats kind of what I mean they're starting to follow the herd and I think they shouldn't be doing that so much as leading the herd.

I quite liked the XJS and still do - very individual looking but then I do like marmite cars - I used to have an S-type too!

[Strawman]

TA14 said:

kambites said:

Captain Muppet said:

Maybe they priced it to make a profit based on investment and BOM cost. I'm not sure a lack of excessive greed is "gross inefficiency".

But then I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

If they literally couldn't make them fast enough, then I'd say it was under-priced, almost by definition.

Or they should have had more production capacity.

I read the problem with the E-type was they never anticipated it would sell as well as it did, based on the disappointing sales of the previous XK-SS, so they never tooled up to mass manufacture it and it remained a largely hand built car throughout it's lifespan.

[Twincam16]

Strawman said:

TA14 said:

kambites said:

Captain Muppet said:

Maybe they priced it to make a profit based on investment and BOM cost. I'm not sure a lack of excessive greed is "gross inefficiency".

But then I don't have access to the accounts for the E-type project.

If they literally couldn't make them fast enough, then I'd say it was under-priced, almost by definition.

Or they should have had more production capacity.

I read the problem with the E-type was they never anticipated it would sell as well as it did, based on the disappointing sales of the previous XK-SS, so they never tooled up to mass manufacture it and it remained a largely hand built car throughout it's lifespan.

Sales of the XKSS weren't 'disappointing', they were just a way for Jaguar to use up the spare D-types they had lying around after the factory stopped racing. They were just D-types reconfigured for road use.

They didn't sell many because the factory went up in smoke after they were all finished and waiting for customers. Only 16 survived, but they were never intended for series production.

And as for the E-type being handmade, what's this then:



They were effectively production-line building a rival to cars that were all handbuilt. This is how they managed to sell them so cheaply. Similar money got you an Alfa Romeo Giulia GT or Duetto Spider, and yet the early E-type was capable of seriously bothering a Maserati.

[vertico2k]

f328nvl said:

I've met Norman a couple of times at various events and if he can hear what you ask, he's a wonderful source of jaw dropping stories. The proposed burst tyre test on E Types is a classic of its type (they suggested shooting them out as he drove past!). Hopefully with Duncan Callam's pen, Tata's money and an appropriate balance of respect for heritage and technology (i.e. no more retro barges) Coventry will once again be proud of it's output.

A manual F-Type is interesting...

Duncan Callam....or Ian Callum??

[Oddball RS]

I'm concerned, the E-type was a maybe not quite a revolution when it came out but it was ground breaking, and in every way, style, cost, performance.

Now to all those that laud the new car - its considerably better than anything else on sale because............. what? go on?

I will wish it all the success in the world, but the same it is not.

[bobfrance]

TA14 said:

Yes and fair enough. Personally I like the 420G and 4.2C for styling but I think that we have to accept that ours is a minority view.

I'll add my vote for the XJS and most Jags of old. I have owned a few in the past and am just about to buy another.
It seems to be a trendy revisionist view to hold that the XJS was rubbish, when if fact it won the European Touring Car Championship, and Jaguar made over 100,000 during the twenty years it was in production. Pretty successful by anyone's measure.

For my part I find Jaguars current choice of styling rather unadventurous and expect that this latest 'on trend' consumer product will will age far worse than the older Jags have.

Edited by bobfrance on Thursday 15th November 13:49

[Twincam16]

Oddball RS said:

I'm concerned, the E-type was a maybe not quite a revolution when it came out but it was ground breaking, and in every way, style, cost, performance.

Now to all those that laud the new car - its considerably better than anything else on sale because............. what? go on?

I will wish it all the success in the world, but the same it is not.

It could never be.

When the E-type was released, 150mph was supercar territory. The world's fastest road cars in 1961 did, what, 160? 170?

Given that the likes of Bugatti, Koenigsegg and SSC are slugging it out to see who can comprehensively blast past 250, the equivalent today would be a mid-engined supercar that did 220mph for £45k.