Re: Where Jag went wrong
Discussion
Captain Muppet said:
Twincam16 said:
And as for the E-type being handmade, what's this then:
Is that a picture of loads of robots? Or is it a picture of cars being hand-built on a production line?Bear in mind that in 1961, the only robot working in the automotive industry was a robot crane-arm that General Motors had for lifting bodyshells off the back of trucks.
The use of robots on the production line only really began in the late '70s.
ZesPak said:
While Peugeot and Citroën make some good looking cars now by making them look more "German", they actually turn boring. Jaguar really does stand out in the crowd, the only think you could accuse them of is that they've taken too much design cues from Aston Martin. And that's hardly an insult, is it?
Jaguar don't take their design cues from Aston Martin, they were all apart of the same Ford group when Ian Callum designed for Aston and Jaguar.Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 15th November 12:07
Twincam16 said:
Well in that case, by your definition back then all cars were handbuilt. I think what you're referring to is 'coachbuilt', which E-types were not. They were built on production lines in the most efficient mass methods available at the time.
No they weren't, the bonnet famously takes many hours of skilled labour to fit to each car individually and can't be swapped from one car to another without lots of modification. Rather than investing in lots of expensive tooling for the body panels the cars were built using lots of hand built techniques.jpf said:
Proper manual transmission and I'd consider the F Type. Right now the Alfa 4C is captivating me though.
My thoughts exactly. Though of course the 4c will be auto flappy paddle, no manual option. No doubt Alfa will cock it up with a clunky duff gearbox as a cost cutting measure to keep the price down.As stated somewhere in the first page of comments the Series 3 E-Type was the start of the bloat so it's wrong to blame it on the XJ-S. I prefer the XJ-S (even more so when it got facelifted and lost the hyphen) but that may be just because I was the right age to be excited when it was released because the E-Type seemed old fashioned by then.
And that's why I now have one
And that's why I now have one
Remember the days when the V12 E-Type was completely unloved? This one I filmed was utterly gorgeous http://goo.gl/bErWM and up for sale at £110,000!
JREwing said:
Hellbound said:
I won't be surprised if this car gets 5 stars all round by British motoring journalists.
Are you trying to imply it won't be very good but will be the subject of favour?Then a few years down the road you'll hear people being more critical of it.
Unless it turns out to be a complete lemon of course!
Anyway I'm just opining about nothing in particular, I'm sure it will be a fab steer.
ZesPak said:
Hmm,
Maybe the front a bit, but imho they carry the same nose but with totally different proportions:
Thats what I mean. IMO the proportions suit the XF perfectly and I reckon its the most handsome car in its sector by a long mile. But I feel the XJ being a bigger car and thus needing the different proportions looks a little odd. It reminded me of a TV program I saw years ago about 2 twins but one who had suffered from excessive growth caused by a brain tumour - one looked normal the other looked like a weird caricature of the normal one but they were still clearly brothers. I'm not saying the XJ is ugly but I hope they don't try to force that corporate look onto the sports cars.Maybe the front a bit, but imho they carry the same nose but with totally different proportions:
But I do still much prefer the X350 even if it looked 'dated', a much more charming car.
Twincam16 said:
Oddball RS said:
I'm concerned, the E-type was a maybe not quite a revolution when it came out but it was ground breaking, and in every way, style, cost, performance.
Now to all those that laud the new car - its considerably better than anything else on sale because............. what? go on?
I will wish it all the success in the world, but the same it is not.
It could never be.Now to all those that laud the new car - its considerably better than anything else on sale because............. what? go on?
I will wish it all the success in the world, but the same it is not.
When the E-type was released, 150mph was supercar territory. The world's fastest road cars in 1961 did, what, 160? 170?
Given that the likes of Bugatti, Koenigsegg and SSC are slugging it out to see who can comprehensively blast past 250, the equivalent today would be a mid-engined supercar that did 220mph for £45k.
Oddball RS said:
I'm concerned, the E-type was a maybe not quite a revolution when it came out but it was ground breaking, and in every way, style, cost, performance.
Now to all those that laud the new car - its considerably better than anything else on sale because............. what? go on?
I will wish it all the success in the world, but the same it is not.
Herein lies the problem Jaguar faces.Now to all those that laud the new car - its considerably better than anything else on sale because............. what? go on?
I will wish it all the success in the world, but the same it is not.
Everyone expects another E-Type. Another ground-breaking, beautiful, cheap, fast and good to drive car. A car that makes supercars look expensive.
But it's impossible to do that in this day and age.
The F type will have had a lot of investment by Tata, looking at what they have done to Land Rover, I suspect, unlike the past, there will be continued huge investment in both Land Rover and Jaguar, with big increases in reliability. The F type, unlike the E type will undoubtedly get better and better. In my opinion, it tends to appeal to the older buyer, (unlike the 911 which appeals across the age spectrum). Keep the convertible as an auto, make the coupe more of a drivers car with manual option and bring out a more stripped out coupe version al la Porsche GT3 and they'll be on to a real winner, especially if the coupe could have some token back seats to throw the dog in/small kids etc..
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