RE: Tell Me I'm Wrong: Porsche 911 Turbo

[original guvnor]

Never driven a Turbo but would love to have a go.

I'm just pleased the "tell me I'm wrong" thread on my car (Z4MC) was 7 pages longer than this one is so far! Allow me the small satisfaction that gives me!

The answer to these sort of articles is always the same. Nobody is right or wrong, its down to personal taste. What is too fast for some isn't for others, etc. That's why Porsche have a range of 911's for all tastes and needs. I could've saved 11 pages of this if I'd posted this a few days ago. Mind you its been fun reading all of your opinions.

I'll let you into a little secret though....I'm hoping my next car will be a 997GT3.

[Carl_Docklands]

original guvnor said:

Never driven a Turbo but would love to have a go.

I'm just pleased the "tell me I'm wrong" thread on my car (Z4MC) was 7 pages longer than this one is so far! Allow me the small satisfaction that gives me!

I would not use that as an indicator mate, only 2 people here seem to have driven a Gen2 997 Turbo PDK.

I exaggerate but not even the chap who wrote the article has had his bum touch the hallowed seat.

Is this car better than a GT3 on the road? well, that would have been a better discussion to have.

[jon-]

Carl_Docklands said:

Is this car better than a GT3 on the road? well, that would have been a better discussion to have.

Not really, it would have come down to the same basic arguments, depending on what people want from a car.

[hallwelder]

996 turbo,awesome.
997 gen1 turbo,incredible.
997 gen2 PDK,mindblowing & the finest example of a 911!
Happy days :]

[HairbearTE]

Debaser said:

good40 said:

3 figures on the public roads??Are you mad ??

Are you serious?

As long as the first of the three figures is a "1" it's just playing

[phast]

monthefish said:

phast said:

I am with you on this one.
I have just sold my modified Audi S4 (V8) and replaced it with a E46 M3.
The problem with the S4 is that it was so competent and travelling at speed that for it to become exciting you needed to travel at silly speeds. Just a couple of weeks ago I somehow managed to get away being pulled at XXX mph and realised that the writing was on the wall, it was just a matter of time before a less reasonable boy in blue would catch me.
The M3 on the other hand is much more fun at lower speeds, particularly roundabouts (my tyre costs are going to go through the roof)
The S4 was the much more effective road car but the M3 is much more fun and satisfying to drive.

Another one....


So you've owned an S4 and an E46 M3, and you think that gives you the experience to form an opinion on a 911 turbo?

Genius.

A genius, wow I am honoured thanks.

The gist of the original post was the age old less is more debate. I thought it was a fair real world comparison (we can't all afford 911 turbos you know) A good S4 or M3 is available for less than £10k, one is heavier, more powerful and has 4WD, the other is Lighter, less powerful and RWD... not dissimilar to the fundamental differences between a 911 Turbo and GT3.

Maybe sticking to 911 forums would be best for you if us lesser mortals daring to get involved causes such offence.
Perhaps offering your own opinion rather than just having a small minded swip at others would be more positive too.

Just the humble opinion of a genius you understand.

[monthefish]

phast said:

monthefish said:

phast said:

I am with you on this one.
I have just sold my modified Audi S4 (V8) and replaced it with a E46 M3.
The problem with the S4 is that it was so competent and travelling at speed that for it to become exciting you needed to travel at silly speeds. Just a couple of weeks ago I somehow managed to get away being pulled at XXX mph and realised that the writing was on the wall, it was just a matter of time before a less reasonable boy in blue would catch me.
The M3 on the other hand is much more fun at lower speeds, particularly roundabouts (my tyre costs are going to go through the roof)
The S4 was the much more effective road car but the M3 is much more fun and satisfying to drive.

Another one....


So you've owned an S4 and an E46 M3, and you think that gives you the experience to form an opinion on a 911 turbo?

Genius.

A genius, wow I am honoured thanks.

The gist of the original post was the age old less is more debate. I thought it was a fair real world comparison (we can't all afford 911 turbos you know) A good S4 or M3 is available for less than £10k, one is heavier, more powerful and has 4WD, the other is Lighter, less powerful and RWD... not dissimilar to the fundamental differences between a 911 Turbo and GT3.

Maybe sticking to 911 forums would be best for you if us lesser mortals daring to get involved causes such offence.
Perhaps offering your own opinion rather than just having a small minded swip at others would be more positive too.

Just the humble opinion of a genius you understand.

The 'gist' of the post was how the author didn't get the 911 turbo. (you really are demonstrating your 'genius' credentials, aren't you )

Your attempt at explaining, is merely further demonstrating why your comparison is flawed:

	BMW	S4
FWD	0	50
RWD	100	50

(does the S4 have a FWD bias even?

	GT3	Turbo
FWD	0	5
RWD	100	95

Can you now see why a parallel can't really be drawn between the two sets of cars?

[phast]

monthefish said:

phast said:

monthefish said:

phast said:

I am with you on this one.
I have just sold my modified Audi S4 (V8) and replaced it with a E46 M3.
The problem with the S4 is that it was so competent and travelling at speed that for it to become exciting you needed to travel at silly speeds. Just a couple of weeks ago I somehow managed to get away being pulled at XXX mph and realised that the writing was on the wall, it was just a matter of time before a less reasonable boy in blue would catch me.
The M3 on the other hand is much more fun at lower speeds, particularly roundabouts (my tyre costs are going to go through the roof)
The S4 was the much more effective road car but the M3 is much more fun and satisfying to drive.

Another one....


So you've owned an S4 and an E46 M3, and you think that gives you the experience to form an opinion on a 911 turbo?

Genius.

A genius, wow I am honoured thanks.

The gist of the original post was the age old less is more debate. I thought it was a fair real world comparison (we can't all afford 911 turbos you know) A good S4 or M3 is available for less than £10k, one is heavier, more powerful and has 4WD, the other is Lighter, less powerful and RWD... not dissimilar to the fundamental differences between a 911 Turbo and GT3.

Maybe sticking to 911 forums would be best for you if us lesser mortals daring to get involved causes such offence.
Perhaps offering your own opinion rather than just having a small minded swip at others would be more positive too.

Just the humble opinion of a genius you understand.

The 'gist' of the post was how the author didn't get the 911 turbo. (you really are demonstrating your 'genius' credentials, aren't you )

Your attempt at explaining, is merely further demonstrating why your comparison is flawed:

	BMW	S4
FWD	0	50
RWD	100	50

(does the S4 have a FWD bias even?

	GT3	Turbo
FWD	0	5
RWD	100	95

Can you now see why a parallel can't really be drawn between the two sets of cars?

Dan said it was the ability to make the "performance feel ordinary" was the reason he didn't get the 911 Turbo and preferred the so called "lesser" 911 models, which are for him more about driving pleasure and less about the numbers. The very reason I switched from the S4 to the M3

[Carl_Docklands]

[MarkPhillipson]

Dave Hedgehog said:

thepony said:

YOU ARE WRONG

This is just pure publicity stunt to get more viewers and audience on to the website to comment on this article.

Wonder what's next the BMW M3 ?

very much so, its getting very silly now

what next the Zonda R is ste cause it only does 5mpg whilst hot lapping the ring??

The mclaren F1 is useless because you cant get 4 child seats in it?

Mr Hedgehog misses the point entirely here. The whole premise of the article was NOT that the 911 Turbo may be fast but is impracticable but rather it is very fast but not that much fun. The writer brilliantly encapsulates my own experience of having had a 996 C4 and thinking the Turbo version would be very similar but even more so. It was not. I never got on with it for exactly the same reasons that he gives. Straightline speed can put a smile on your face for a brief drive or two but quickly palls - it is almost too fast to enjoy the acceleration. I realise that this sounds strange but it was true for me. With the money from selling the Turbo I now have another 996 C4 and a 964 C4 Cabrio, both of which I love and are fun even when not flat out. QED. (I also have a 156 GTa).

[Carl_Docklands]

MarkPhillipson said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

thepony said:

YOU ARE WRONG

This is just pure publicity stunt to get more viewers and audience on to the website to comment on this article.

Wonder what's next the BMW M3 ?

very much so, its getting very silly now

what next the Zonda R is ste cause it only does 5mpg whilst hot lapping the ring??

The mclaren F1 is useless because you cant get 4 child seats in it?

Mr Hedgehog misses the point entirely here. The whole premise of the article was NOT that the 911 Turbo may be fast but is impracticable but rather it is very fast but not that much fun. The writer brilliantly encapsulates my own experience of having had a 996 C4 and thinking the Turbo version would be very similar but even more so. It was not. I never got on with it for exactly the same reasons that he gives. Straightline speed can put a smile on your face for a brief drive or two but quickly palls - it is almost too fast to enjoy the acceleration. I realise that this sounds strange but it was true for me. With the money from selling the Turbo I now have another 996 C4 and a 964 C4 Cabrio, both of which I love and are fun even when not flat out. QED. (I also have a 156 GTa).

The counter argument though, is what makes the 997 C4 better at 30-40mph driving than a 997 Turbo?

Nobody has really nailed a good reason for it other than the exhaust note.

My Turbo remains off boost for most of the time, it acts like a 3.8 NA car as I use the throttle lightly. It will only start to hit boost if the throttle travel hits a certain degree angle.

In this context, I don't see how the car can be classed as overpowered.

I am perfectly happy tootling around in this manner, the Turbo is a big pussycat and will not bite your head off. The car gives you options, you can choose to dip into it as the situation demands. Normal driving during the week, head down to Brands at the weekends.

Flat-out in the dry, the straight-line pace is approximate to a 458 Italia. I don't really see why the Turbo is being singled out for it's speed when there are other cars out there just as quick.

[g7jhp]

Just don't compare the 911 turbo to a Jaguar XKR.....if you mention 'track' in your post of your likely to get shot in the _ _ _ _ _!

Cat lovers are always sensitive types

[Dick Seaman]

Cars with a single purpose are easy to appraise; estates, MPVs, 4x4s, track cars, rep mobiles, etc, we understand what they've been built for and we can judge and compare with confidence. Cars that attempt to multi-task are harder to evaluate. The 997 (or 996) Turbo embraces its potential roles, and the associated compromise, but therefore leaves itself open to criticism.

An 'everyday supercar' is a contradiction in terms, we all know this, Porsche know this, but, these vehicles are the very embodiment of multi-purpose maximisation. They should be appreciated and enjoyed with that in mind.

[Contigo]

[DKL]

I'll see that and raise you these.
http://flatsixes.com/porsche-culture/humor/favorit...

[smith68]

Hallo everybody,

I am new here, and found the forum searching by Google "Porsche 997 turbo s lazy throttle"

I have Audi S4 B5 2,7 Bi-turbo,did not drive it last 3 years.I was very happy with the car.
Modifications were:removing of the CAT,KW variable suspension,spacers.
Very powerful car,pulling from low and screaming in top revs.Steering feel very good, very fast throttle response.
50-50 quattro, handling very good.

Then I bought Audi S5, V8 4,2L.
I was disappointed in engine,power in mid revs (no turbo),sound and plastic steering feel.
I put MTM exhaust, I felt more sound and more excitement,impression of the speed improved.
Still, this is more like big GT coupe than smaller toy S4.

Then I bought 997 Turbo S as brand new car.
The reason not buying 991 - I wanted old school mechanics, turbo feel, hydraulic steering.
I was disappointed again, more than with S5, as my expectations were very high.

First,throttle response- very lazy, little better in sport mode, but much slower than in S5, much,much slower than in S4.
Start and drive,it starts slow,then if you push,wait a little and it surprise with a jump.
Off and on feeling, nothing in between.
Same when you drive- 0 to 4000 revs lazy,a little better up to 5000, and amazing over it.You have to wait.
I like PDK, but I miss control of the manual.With PDK you sometime do not know what will happen.
Sound is very bad and makes impression of lazy car without boost.

I checked and updated all software in service, but I think it is a nature of the car.
Some tuners told me the same, boring car, you have to re-program ECU, put exhaust, and even improve geometry as the front is light and sometime a little nervous.

Best regards

[hornbaek]

It was not before i took my 997 tt to Monaco and back across the Alps and some Autobahns back to the UK that i started to understand what this car is all about. I have since sold it and have had a couple of other sportscars but in comparison the turbo is epic if you have the ability to stretch it legs on longer journeys. Driven in the UK it is a waste of space. The speed restriction does not allow the Porsche tt to show off its merits but driven on the Autobahn it is a completely different story. The mid-acceleration of this car from 70 mph and onwards is without comparison.

[tmhsg]

Did the Man Maths, convinced the wife we should get rid of the R class and get a smaller four wheel drive and bought a 2007 997 manual turbo. It is a brilliant car, on my daily comute of fast country roads in the ,early, morning and a cruise home averages 27mpg, my only complaint, it does not give me the wake up call its predecessor, an exige , did. I'v seen the word "clinical" used several times in this topic and that sums the car up perfectly. It, starts first turn of the key, makes the right noises, to my ear, acceleration is mind blowing and clings on in corners where the Exige would be twitching scrambling for the ditch and trying to rip your hands off, so after two years I'm going back to Lotus.
P/S On the positive side, the wife was so miffed, she refused to go in or admit it existed!

[Adam B]

Perhaps it depends what you are coming from, I swapped my B7 RS4 (brilliant, practical, reliable) for a 997TT two weeks ago and the turbo certainly doesn't feel overly civilised. From an Exige it might do!

Its lower and more compact than its predecessor which obviously helps the car feel rawer, combined with a lot more engine noise, tyre roar, stiffer suspension (even though the RS4 had optional SS+) and rifle shot gearchange (my turbo has the sports shifter) it is the perfect combination of a sporty yet reasonably practical, all-weather, one-car household motoring solution. Bloody rocketship too!

[LordVader]

I've been lucky enough to either own or drive allsorts of fast cars in my time inc Lancer Evo's (6 - 9 inc 8 FQ400), Skyline R33, various TVR's, 911 Turbo (993) and a Caterham 7 SV Xpower.
By far and away the most exciting and satisfying to drive was probably the slowest and that was the Caterham.

Given the choice now between big power turbo or titchy but lightweight I will always go for the latter.
(Although the Datsun 240 with a Chim engine featured elsewhere today is sorely tempting :P)