RE: Focus RS stop-gap is here
Discussion
I had a brand new yellow Focus ST following me out of the Metrocentre as I was driving home this afternoon. The most obvious thing about it was how awful the shutline on the bonnet was. It looked like it had been dropped and settled lazily in place without clicking, though it looks the same in all the pictures. 
Anubis said:
Weight.
It's all about power to weight - F1 teams harp on about this all the time.
Ramping up the power over the years is all very well for some pub talk willy waving, but if you're driving something with the weight of a hippo it's obviously going to need a lot of power to get it moving in the first place. Classic hot hatches of the 90's don't weigh anywhere near as much as today's cars.
Lamborghini have stated it's no longer about top speed and power; it's about reducing the weight of their cars through different materials. The methods used (as they become easier to make thus cheaper) will filter down over the years into the sports cars and hot hatches.
Just look at the new Boeing Dreamliner. It's not about the engine output (already a lot); instead it's all about the weight and materials of the thing. Just adding more power is just one dimension to the overall 'fun factor' of a car.
A big heavy car with 400BHP will unlikely be as much fun as a light weight, smaller, nimble car carrying 200BHP. Just my opinion and all...
I see weight being discussed more and more on here and the consensus seems to be that cars should be lighter. There seems to be general consternation that cars are so heavy these days. However, the weight increase is a direct result of extra safety requirements and additional kit that consumers desire. I know on here we try to differentiate ourselves from Joe Bloggs on the street and believe that we can all commute to work every day (all year round) in Caterham's, but this is not reality. It's all about power to weight - F1 teams harp on about this all the time.
Ramping up the power over the years is all very well for some pub talk willy waving, but if you're driving something with the weight of a hippo it's obviously going to need a lot of power to get it moving in the first place. Classic hot hatches of the 90's don't weigh anywhere near as much as today's cars.
Lamborghini have stated it's no longer about top speed and power; it's about reducing the weight of their cars through different materials. The methods used (as they become easier to make thus cheaper) will filter down over the years into the sports cars and hot hatches.
Just look at the new Boeing Dreamliner. It's not about the engine output (already a lot); instead it's all about the weight and materials of the thing. Just adding more power is just one dimension to the overall 'fun factor' of a car.
A big heavy car with 400BHP will unlikely be as much fun as a light weight, smaller, nimble car carrying 200BHP. Just my opinion and all...
The best example is the M3 CSL. BMW gave punters the opportunity to buy the car with no kit, to save weight, and yet virtually every one you see has PDC, Air Con, CD player etc. Those few that were spec'd with no kit are impossible to sell, even at a far lower price that the spec'd cars. I appreciate some cars were spec'd by dealers, but not all.
Baryonyx said:
I had a brand new yellow Focus ST following me out of the Metrocentre as I was driving home this afternoon. The most obvious thing about it was how awful the shutline on the bonnet was. It looked like it had been dropped and settled lazily in place without clicking, though it looks the same in all the pictures.
Its the same on the RS's. I lent on a mates bonnet the other day thinking it wasn't shut. Not enough to put me off the car mind.
anything fast said:
FWD>>> 0-60 in 4.8.. no chance ever, funny thing is if your ripped out its undercrackers and slotted in a mildy tuned sierra cosworth drivetrain with say 300 bhp and proper wheel drive it would easily be a 5 sec car.. hint hint Mr Ford, do you know get what most Ford fans want?? No still dont get it.. ok Mr Ford bugger off then I will buy something else 
Do remember, Ford did have a 4WD RS evaluation car in 08/09. Because of the weight of the drivetrain and additional losses thru' the transmission, they found it needed close on 400bhp to feel as quick as the 2WD car.... of course the caveat there is that the 4WD would give a better 0-60 time. Jost Capito also went on record to say the additional weight of the 4WD made the car feel cumbersome and less involving.Instead, they ditched the 4WD and developed the RevoNuckle, added the diff, blah, blah, blah and ended up with a FWD car that is a bloody riot to drive.
Given the weight & cost of the run of the mill Focus, as an owner of a tuned ST and 360bhp RS, I can honestly say..... Mr Ford, I don't want 4WD as the additional weight, transmission losses and cost would ruin the car. 4WD in this car would very much be wrong wheel drive!
anything fast said:
FWD>>> 0-60 in 4.8.. no chance ever, funny thing is if your ripped out its undercrackers and slotted in a mildy tuned sierra cosworth drivetrain with say 300 bhp and proper wheel drive it would easily be a 5 sec car.. hint hint Mr Ford, do you know get what most Ford fans want?? No still dont get it.. ok Mr Ford bugger off then I will buy something else
Not so. The quickest Mk3 Fiesta does an officially timed 0-60 in 4.2. It's 275bhp and running on road legal tyres (205 section Yokohama AVS as used on the Lotus Exige). No Revo-knuckle or traction control, just a cheap shopping trolley with an '80s gearbox and viscous LSD.The mainstream are only just catching up with what is actually possible with FWD.
[The best example is the M3 CSL. BMW gave punters the opportunity to buy the car with no kit, to save weight, and yet virtually every one you see has PDC, Air Con, CD player etc. Those few that were spec'd with no kit are impossible to sell, even at a far lower price that the spec'd cars. I appreciate some cars were spec'd by dealers, but not all.
The CSL with no kit was more money than the standard M3 with all the kit !!!!!!!!
The CSL with no kit was more money than the standard M3 with all the kit !!!!!!!!
garypotter said:
[The best example is the M3 CSL. BMW gave punters the opportunity to buy the car with no kit, to save weight, and yet virtually every one you see has PDC, Air Con, CD player etc. Those few that were spec'd with no kit are impossible to sell, even at a far lower price that the spec'd cars. I appreciate some cars were spec'd by dealers, but not all.
The CSL with no kit was more money than the standard M3 with all the kit !!!!!!!!
So kit and/or price is more important than weight - agreed?The CSL with no kit was more money than the standard M3 with all the kit !!!!!!!!
So why do we all keep banging on about weight when what we really want is kit and value for money.
otolith said:
Speak for yourself.
So weight was your priority when you bought your 9-5? Or is that weight was important for the Elise purchase and the 9-5 is necessary as the Elise is not practical every day? For some people, multiple car garages are not an option and my point is that (if we are honest!) in that instance weight is very rarely (if ever) the primary concern. The reality is that mundane things like air bags and air conditioning (read the Recent Dacia thread!) come into play.
Firstly I'd like to agree with everyone who thinks the new Focus looks s
te, and I've liked some of their recent offerings - especially the latest Fiesta.
Secondly I can't believe how many people don't realize how heavy a fully equipped hot hatch now is - most of them are getting on for 1500 kgs. 306's were 1200kg, Clio Mk 1 William 950kg - A 1500kg hot hatch needs 225bhp just to match the 1993 Clio's performance. A Mk 1 Impreza Turbo weighs over 200kg less than the Focus, has electric everything like the Focus, 4wd, extra diff. A R32 Skyline weighs pretty much the same with a much bigger body ,a 50% bigger engine an extra turbo, 4wd, another diff, ha electric everything and air-con.
And lastly people who drive cars because they have a great NCAP safety rating shouldn't even be on this forum. If you applied the same logic to other areas of your life you'd never cycle, cross the road, have unprotected sex and you'd need to take your own parachute on your holiday flight!
te, and I've liked some of their recent offerings - especially the latest Fiesta. Secondly I can't believe how many people don't realize how heavy a fully equipped hot hatch now is - most of them are getting on for 1500 kgs. 306's were 1200kg, Clio Mk 1 William 950kg - A 1500kg hot hatch needs 225bhp just to match the 1993 Clio's performance. A Mk 1 Impreza Turbo weighs over 200kg less than the Focus, has electric everything like the Focus, 4wd, extra diff. A R32 Skyline weighs pretty much the same with a much bigger body ,a 50% bigger engine an extra turbo, 4wd, another diff, ha electric everything and air-con.
And lastly people who drive cars because they have a great NCAP safety rating shouldn't even be on this forum. If you applied the same logic to other areas of your life you'd never cycle, cross the road, have unprotected sex and you'd need to take your own parachute on your holiday flight!
EDLT said:
ScoobieWRX said:
I've not read the all the posts and someone may well have already said it but a miserly 30bhp for £1200... 
They are avvin a giraffe!!
It is still covered by the warranty, unlike most remaps.They are avvin a giraffe!!
K5tealth said:
otolith said:
Speak for yourself.
So weight was your priority when you bought your 9-5? Or is that weight was important for the Elise purchase and the 9-5 is necessary as the Elise is not practical every day? .
If I had to live with one car, it wouldn't be as impractical as the Elise, but nor would it be as compromised as the Saab.
Mmm...interesting.
I own, for now anyway, a 2012 Focus ST-3 and it is currently less than 2 months old & I've already had one breakdown that had to involve a recovery truck back to the supplying dealer, plus a rattle in the rear passenger door speaker (quite literally a "they all do that sir" diagnosis) and now I have a duel/perhaps related rough running + massive engine hesitation issue when going round roundabouts.
Fix Or Repair Daily is almost apt in my case!
My advice: Do NOT buy a brand-new Focus ST. They suck.
I own, for now anyway, a 2012 Focus ST-3 and it is currently less than 2 months old & I've already had one breakdown that had to involve a recovery truck back to the supplying dealer, plus a rattle in the rear passenger door speaker (quite literally a "they all do that sir" diagnosis) and now I have a duel/perhaps related rough running + massive engine hesitation issue when going round roundabouts.
Fix Or Repair Daily is almost apt in my case!
My advice: Do NOT buy a brand-new Focus ST. They suck.
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